Jesus, Paul and the Law

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genuineoriginal

New member
Romans 5:12 refutes you.
You are mistaken in thinking that there is such a thing as "fallen man".
Man ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and has the free-will to choose between good and evil.
Man did not eat from the fruit of the tree of total depravity and became "fallen man".
 

clefty

New member
It is all about being "In Christ" and living by the Spirit, 1 John 2:5.

The verse just before the one you cited tells us how to do that...

"He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

And you cut it off too soon

"6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."

Why do you do that?

You wanna please the Father?...copy the Son...dont eat da ham...dont do the sunday church thingy...dont celebrate His bday (and just because He didnt and His Father HATES it)...celebrate the Father's feasts instead (because He did)

Once you lay out the Father's house rules like that you really are distinguishing yourself as His...not of this world...and you signal the Spirit you wish to do more...and you will be led further
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
The verse just before the one you cited tells us how to do that...

"He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

And you cut it off too soon

"6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."

Why do you do that?

You wanna please the Father?...copy the Son...dont eat da ham...dont do the sunday church thingy...dont celebrate His bday (and just because He didnt and His Father HATES it)...celebrate the Father's feasts instead (because He did)

Once you lay out the Father's house rules like that you really are distinguishing yourself as His...not of this world...and you signal the Spirit you wish to do more...and you will be led further


The Father does not have any house rules. You are back to living by the law. We have total and complete freedom "In Christ". It is only when we are free from the law that we can obey the law. We obey not because we have to. We obey because we want to. The Pharisees obeyed because they had to and it caused them to be rebellious. It is only when we have the freedom to sin that we will stop sinning.
 

clefty

New member
The Father does not have any house rules. You are back to living by the law. We have total and complete freedom "In Christ". It is only when we are free from the law that we can obey the law. We obey not because we have to. We obey because we want to. The Pharisees obeyed because they had to and it caused them to be rebellious. It is only when we have the freedom to sin that we will stop sinning.

Really you want to? So which is it? There are no house rules (Law) or we obey because we want to...

And which ones do you want to obey? All 10 or just 9...that Sunday thingy right?



And we have freedom TO sin or freedom from the consequences of sin?

Wow...

we will stop sinning? Wow

How would you know if there is no more Law?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Really you want to? So which is it? There are no house rules (Law) or we obey because we want to...

And which ones do you want to obey? All 10 or just 9...that Sunday thingy right?



And we have freedom TO sin or freedom from the consequences of sin?

Wow...

we will stop sinning? Wow

How would you know if there is no more Law?


The law and the fact that we are natural born sinners is the problem.

Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12. This is why it is important to believe that we are free from the law. To be free from the law is to be free from sin.
 

clefty

New member
The law and the fact that we are natural born sinners is the problem.

Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12. This is why it is important to believe that we are free from the law. To be free from the law is to be free from sin.

Lol...the Law makes us sin?



Gravity forces you to fall?


Paul is not saying that at all...little children infants even take things...they are not aware they are stealing...the Law when they understand it points that out to them...

It doesn’t make them steal...

We are not free from His Law...just (if in Him) from its consequences...AND THAT ONLY UNTO ETERNAL DEATH

if we steal something now which is not ours it still is stealing and has consequences...if caught

If no Law there is no sin no need of Saviour and no guarantee we can stay in His house as His children...

Don’t forget the same Law which casts one out of the house keeps another in...adopted and legally heir...and grateful for what was done to secure his right of residency
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Lol...the Law makes us sin?



Gravity forces you to fall?


Paul is not saying that at all...little children infants even take things...they are not aware they are stealing...the Law when they understand it points that out to them...

It doesn’t make them steal...

We are not free from His Law...just (if in Him) from its consequences...AND THAT ONLY UNTO ETERNAL DEATH

if we steal something now which is not ours it still is stealing and has consequences...if caught

If no Law there is no sin no need of Saviour and no guarantee we can stay in His house as His children...

Don’t forget the same Law which casts one out of the house keeps another in...adopted and legally heir...and grateful for what was done to secure his right of residency


Paul said that the law made him sin. Did you read the scripture?

"But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

Adam and Eve were very happy in the Garden until God said, "Don't eat of the tree" They didn't even know about the tree, but now the tree was of the utmost interest because God said "Don't eat of it". There is something in human nature when told not to do something we want to do it.

The law does not make anyone righteous. If anything it makes them want to sin.
 

clefty

New member
Paul said that the law made him sin. Did you read the scripture?

"But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

Adam and Eve were very happy in the Garden until God said, "Don't eat of the tree" They didn't even know about the tree, but now the tree was of the utmost interest because God said "Don't eat of it". There is something in human nature when told not to do something we want to do it.

The law does not make anyone righteous. If anything it makes them want to sin.

You really are a rebel eh?


Understandable why you dont finish Paul's thought...verse 12therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Paul was describing his understanding prior to the Law...he did whatever...no conscience...like an animal enslaved to its instinct...

But once he heard of the law...he realized there was more than just survival of the jungle...and suddenly his instincts had consequences...had real impact...value... and could be deadly...sinful...a falling from a higher standard...

now he had free will and had to choose and take accountability...slave to flesh or slave to savior...the law pointed out both

But now as a typical juvenile you wish to argue it's the laws fault...

Like a crying child with a scrapped knee blaming gravity that you fell and wishing gravity was abolished...

Boo hoo...sorry you havent learned to love gravity and understand how it works and is meant to benefit and enhance your life...

"But it made me fall and scrape my knee!!!!"

Typical juvenile...rebel...
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
You really are a rebel eh?


Understandable why you dont finish Paul's thought...verse 12therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Paul was describing his understanding prior to the Law...he did whatever...no conscience...like an animal enslaved to its instinct...

But once he heard of the law...he realized there was more than just survival of the jungle...and suddenly his instincts had consequences...had real impact...value... and could be deadly...sinful...a falling from a higher standard...

now he had free will and had to choose and take accountability...slave to flesh or slave to savior...the law pointed out both

But now as a typical juvenile you wish to argue it's the laws fault...

Like a crying child with a scrapped knee blaming gravity that you fell and wishing gravity was abolished...

Boo hoo...sorry you havent learned to love gravity and understand how it works and is meant to benefit and enhance your life...

"But it made me fall and scrape my knee!!!!"

Typical juvenile...rebel...

good analysis.
 

Danoh

New member
You need to accept the fact that you cannot keep the law. Stop trying to be Jewish and be a Christian. "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by rules, laws and religion.

Actually, Paul was quoting an Israelite Prophet under the Law, there.

The narrative of which had originally been...

Habakkuk 1:1 The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see. 1:2 O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save! 1:3 Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention. 1:4 Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth. 1:5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 1:6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs. 1:7 They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.

The reason for that bit of very distressing news about what would befall his nation for their Unfaithfulness TO THEIR Law but at the same time, a reason for hope against hope nonetheless?

Habakkuk 2:1 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved. 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

That last part in bold there would also be manifested by one such as their Prophet Daniel.

And Paul had had all that in mind, in Acts 13, also...

Acts 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. 13:40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

By the way, that right there is another example of Paul quoting the OT, not so much for what it had originally applied to, but because its basic operating principle is the same.

He also makes use of his unique aplication of it, in Romans 2 and into...

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

And in...

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In other words BOTH systems revolve around the issue of the just (each within their respective system - Law or Grace) living by faith towards God within their particular "instruction in righteousness."

In Time Past, under the Law...

Deuteronomy 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

An example of which had been...

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And But Now, this side of Israel's fall and temporary setting aside by God in His Grace...Rom. 11:25-29.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Case in point?

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

And that knowledge right there is experiential, Acts 15; Rom. 7; etc.

3:21 BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Nevertheless, Robert, Rom. 14:5 towards you; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8 - in both our stead.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
You really are a rebel eh?


Understandable why you dont finish Paul's thought...verse 12therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Paul was describing his understanding prior to the Law...he did whatever...no conscience...like an animal enslaved to its instinct...

But once he heard of the law...he realized there was more than just survival of the jungle...and suddenly his instincts had consequences...had real impact...value... and could be deadly...sinful...a falling from a higher standard...

now he had free will and had to choose and take accountability...slave to flesh or slave to savior...the law pointed out both

But now as a typical juvenile you wish to argue it's the laws fault...

Like a crying child with a scrapped knee blaming gravity that you fell and wishing gravity was abolished...

Boo hoo...sorry you havent learned to love gravity and understand how it works and is meant to benefit and enhance your life...

"But it made me fall and scrape my knee!!!!"

Typical juvenile...rebel...


The only thing good about the law is that it reveals the nature and the character of God. Jesus is the law of God incarnate in human flesh.

If you try to keep it or do it, it will damn you to hell, Galatians 3:10.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Actually, Paul was quoting an Israelite Prophet under the Law, there.

The narrative of which had originally been...

Habakkuk 1:1 The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see. 1:2 O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save! 1:3 Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention. 1:4 Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth. 1:5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 1:6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs. 1:7 They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.

The reason for that bit of very distressing news about what would befall his nation for their Unfaithfulness TO THEIR Law but at the same time, a reason for hope against hope nonetheless?

Habakkuk 2:1 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved. 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

That last part in bold there would also be manifested by one such as their Prophet Daniel.

And Paul had had all that in mind, in Acts 13, also...

Acts 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. 13:40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

By the way, that right there is another example of Paul quoting the OT, not so much for what it had originally applied to, but because its basic operating principle is the same.

He also makes use of his unique aplication of it, in Romans 2 and into...

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

And in...

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In other words BOTH systems revolve around the issue of the just (each within their respective system - Law or Grace) living by faith towards God within their particular "instruction in righteousness."

In Time Past, under the Law...

Deuteronomy 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

An example of which had been...

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And But Now, this side of Israel's fall and temporary setting aside by God in His Grace...Rom. 11:25-29.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Case in point?

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

And that knowledge right there is experiential, Acts 15; Rom. 7; etc.

3:21 BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Nevertheless, Robert, Rom. 14:5 towards you; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8 - in both our stead.


"The Just Shall Live By Faith" Not by laws, rules or religion.
 

clefty

New member
The only thing good about the law is that it reveals the nature and the character of God. Jesus is the law of God incarnate in human flesh.
all the more reason to follow Him His way...live as He did...do as He did...we are made in His image might as well reflect it...

If you try to keep it or do it, it will damn you to hell, Galatians 3:10.

Right because it is impossible to keep it...especially without His motivation...(the irony of one actually keeping the Law perfectly and still not in Love or relationship with Him or his fellow man is lost on you...)

but again...being the rebel you are...you wouldn't even go to the plate...you'd quit...because you'd argue "I could never bat 1000"..."keep all the rules perfectly"...

The Law still reveals the heart and desire for the game and the One who made it and played it...your heart is revealed it ain't in it...

You shall know them by there fruits...is exactly you will declare yourselves by the law you establish and keep...

John was clear..."here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua"...again NOT faith IN Him but His faith...which was living to do His Father's will...keeping His commandments...

That's what living by faith means...the faith is revealed by how you live...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
all the more reason to follow Him His way...live as He did...do as He did...we are made in His image might as well reflect it...



Right because it is impossible to keep it...especially without His motivation...(the irony of one actually keeping the Law perfectly and still not in Love or relationship with Him or his fellow man is lost on you...)

but again...being the rebel you are...you wouldn't even go to the plate...you'd quit...because you'd argue "I could never bat 1000"..."keep all the rules perfectly"...

The Law still reveals the heart and desire for the game and the One who made it and played it...your heart is revealed it ain't in it...

You shall know them by there fruits...is exactly you will declare yourselves by the law you establish and keep...

John was clear..."here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua"...again NOT faith IN Him but His faith...which was living to do His Father's will...keeping His commandments...

That's what living by faith means...the faith is revealed by how you live...

Living by faith means to live by the Spirit of Jesus and not by the letter of the law.

Living by the Spirit means to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If you are perfect and complete "In Christ" then you will not need rules, laws or religion. You will cease from your own works and will rest in his work, Hebrews 4:10.
 

clefty

New member
Living by faith means to live by the Spirit of Jesus and not by the letter of the law.
you mean the jots and the tittles He said He didnt come to abolish so "think NOT that I have come to"...see the Law remains...

Or are we allowed to now kill and steal and commit adultery etc...? Because some people actually do break the law and claim they are Spirit led...

Imagine getting pulled over by the police and to attempt a defense claim "oh sorry officer I no longer need to fulfill the law...its obligations...as I know someone who fulfilled it completely so now I dont have too..."...lol

Living by the Spirit means to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If you are perfect and complete "In Christ" then you will not need rules, laws or religion.
here are they that keep the commandments and the faith OF His Son...not just faith in...so you will follow His faith and practice...

So yes if you are in Him you will do as He did...at least want to try...


You will cease from your own works and will rest in his work, Hebrews 4:10.

Oh boy...we still need a day of rest from our works...the rest He provides is the rest given to all His people...the ones who accept it gratefully...

Some reject it...and still claim to do as He did...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
you mean the jots and the tittles He said He didnt come to abolish so "think NOT that I have come to"...see the Law remains...

Or are we allowed to now kill and steal and commit adultery etc...? Because some people actually do break the law and claim they are Spirit led...

Imagine getting pulled over by the police and to attempt a defense claim "oh sorry officer I no longer need to fulfill the law...its obligations...as I know someone who fulfilled it completely so now I dont have too..."...lol

here are they that keep the commandments and the faith OF His Son...not just faith in...so you will follow His faith and practice...

So yes if you are in Him you will do as He did...at least want to try...




Oh boy...we still need a day of rest from our works...the rest He provides is the rest given to all His people...the ones who accept it gratefully...

Some reject it...and still claim to do as He did...


If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is still subject to judgment and condemnation. Paul said that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ, Romans 8:1.
 

clefty

New member
If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is still subject to judgment and condemnation. Paul said that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ, Romans 8:1.

Duh...of course there remains judgment and condemnation...is exactly why we wish to follow Him...His way...be more like Him...

There isn't final condemnation as in eternal second death as well you are IN HIM...again, duh



So how do you know if you or anyone else is IN HIM...

By the keeping of His Law...the faith OF Him...not just faith in Him...it is to be in Him living as He did...

One verse more "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death"

See? Law still remains to counter balance law...the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"

now how is there NO law? or are we merely free from the law of sin and death?

More specifically Paul was not sinless and wrote admitting as much...he also died so therefore the law of sin and death were still binding...so which law was he freed from because he followed which other law?


The same law that castes out those not belonging in His house as they dont keep His house rules is the same law that allows for adoption into it...

And you keep going on about there is no more law...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Duh...of course there remains judgment and condemnation...is exactly why we wish to follow Him...His way...be more like Him...

There isn't final condemnation as in eternal second death as well you are IN HIM...again, duh



So how do you know if you or anyone else is IN HIM...

By the keeping of His Law...the faith OF Him...not just faith in Him...it is to be in Him living as He did...

One verse more "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death"

See? Law still remains to counter balance law...the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"

now how is there NO law? or are we merely free from the law of sin and death?

More specifically Paul was not sinless and wrote admitting as much...he also died so therefore the law of sin and death were still binding...so which law was he freed from because he followed which other law?


The same law that castes out those not belonging in His house as they dont keep His house rules is the same law that allows for adoption into it...

And you keep going on about there is no more law...


If you are found to be under the law in the judgment you will perish.

We know that we are "In Christ" because we are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for our sins. And we have no confidence in the flesh (religion).
 

clefty

New member
If you are found to be under the law in the judgment you will perish.
what judgement? How can there be a judgement without the Law?

Didn't anybody tell you? No more judgement day because at the cross the Law was abolished...right? Or?

We know that we are "In Christ" because we are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for our sins.
not all who cry out will be saved...even Satan believes and trusts His atonement is valid

And we have no confidence in the flesh (religion).

Flesh is man in a fallen state in which he makes up religions to counterfeit and corrupt the Faith of Christ into merely faith in Him...

Man has plenty of religions...but He established His own and those that believe and follow establish not their own laws but His Law...we establish His Law...to be more like Him His Way...

Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah...and the faith of His Son...faith without His works is dead...do as He did


We do His work, keep His faith, follow His Way because we are saved...not to become saved
 
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