Jesus is YHWH

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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So?





So a soft spot for me has nothing to do with protecting Lon.

:D

I understand what you are pointing out. You are a peacemaker extraordinaire.

Arianism tends to pull the victim card, but in the big scheme of things, all that teach Christ have experienced their share of retribution.

I do back Lon up on the Divinity and other matters, but I would say that I'm pointing out that the victim card is beneath you, because it is.

You don't need that argument to maintain your Unitarian course. I also note that you see the big picture and have humility in your belief.

For these reasons, I can assure you that this goes far deeper than backing up Lon and diminishing your perspective.

I used to hate that the Mother church took to the sword to defend the Divinity... but then I realized... what some people screw up, doesn't spoil a whole batch. Unless of-coarse, we were discussing the Leavening of the Pharisees.

All respect,

EE
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
I go weeks/months sometime without giving TOL a second thought. After that thread was closed I moved on to other interests for a while (astronomy). I was unaware of a continuing thread.
If you spent as much time actually discussing the topic as you do honing your insult skills when you've been bested you'd be more interesting.

*Ta ta.
OP you never responded to

I even made spelling errors that I never corrected.* They were waiting for your scrutiny.
You create a thread to further a discussion from a prior thread that was prematurely closed then blame me for not responding to the new thread of which I knew nothing about. Seriously? Couldn't you have PM'd me of the existence of this ground-breaking thread if it was so vitally important I participate?
I sincerely wanted to discuss the matter with you,
Yeah, on my review of that thread I could tell from your venomous vitriol how sincere you were :rolleyes:.
... but sensed a certain method about you.
Who are you now, Spiderman?
The very insults you point out are the very things you rely on in discussion.
I rely on logic and reason, you rely on insult because, from my perspective, you are unable to use either.
I am well equipped to buckle down and have a cordial debate, sling a little mud or just get plain nasty.
"Just plain nasty" is all I have read from you to everyone with whom you disagree. A "cordial" discussion seems beyond your ability. Other posters have made this observation as well.
I look at the intellectual respect that a persons post content reveals and respond accordingly.* This way, the meaningful discussions go forward, but the meaningless discussions dissolve rapidly.
What you view as a lack of "intellectual respect" (whatever that means) is probably a result of the brevity of most of my responses. I usually text from a phone so getting to the point in a few words is preferable. The discussions I've seen you involved in "dissolve rapidly" because you prefer insult to rational and meaningful counter-arguments when your initial assertions are defeated.
I am willing to press forward, but I'm not willing to press forward and place effort into a discussion with an individual that has nothing more than canned arguments and presuppositions.
My "canned arguments and presuppositions" are different from your "canned arguments and presuppositions", how, exactly?
I have ascertained that you have no respect for people that believe in God and especially those that believe God is the Loving God that Died at our cruel hands to show us that We are that important to Him.
My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love and respect her and the beliefs she holds dear? Really?

Please explain how "god" dies. Do your best to avoid logical inconsistencies and biblical assertions in your discussion.
You seem to like the demanding God concept.* You like the work your way to Heaven, unseeable, unprovable God concept, because it fits your inability to search out the God that Loves us and walks with us.
Which biblical deity are you referencing here, the jealous, vengeful, capricious, murderous one described in the OT or the one you prefer?
You claim to be a well studied Athiest that keeps up with world events, but your arguments lack evidence and carry a lot of insult to them.
]Current events aren't the issue. Certainly the atrocities of Islam dominate the headlines, however, the history of heinous acts committed by "true christians" is well documented.
It's funny that you jump in on this thread that defines Jesus as God, and claim to understand the dynamics of what is being discussed.
As a person who was raised in a fundamentalist christian family (my dad was a minister) and have studied the bible (and other religious texts) for nearly 60 years. I submit that I am more than a little qualified.
You laugh at Theology and devalue it, thus you have no grounds to judge a discussion about it.
See above.
Evil.Eye.;5038261If you were willing to discuss the philosophical aspect in conjunction with the source text said:
When you have studied and understand the "source texts" without the ingrained bias of trinitarianism, I be more than happy to "discuss the philosophical aspect" of whatever you choose.
If you had leveled out on the Islam discussion and admitted that it is an issue that is not anything like Christianity, but Love thy Neighbor needs to be kept in mind... I would have tipped my hat your way.
A bit of study on your part of the history of christianity might be of benefit to you. Try not to brush aside the long list of atrocities committed as not the work product of "true" christians.
My point... you are big talk and no facts or genuine heart in discussion.* You seem incapable of discussing the "idea" of God.
I'm completely capable of discussion on any subject. My advantage over you is that I don't become emotionally involved when my position is challenged/defeated or feel insulted.
This is why I address you as I do of late.* It is my way of dosing you with your own medicine.
If dosages of "my own medicine" is what I will be receiving from you in the future in lieu of rational and meaningful responses might I suggest you age rapidly beyond your years or you grow thicker skin. Either will help. Failure to do so on your part will result in abandonment of the discussion on mine. Its how I roll.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love and respect her and the beliefs she holds dear. Really?
Your wife's Lord rose from the dead.
Please explain how "god" dies. Do your best to avoid logical inconsistencies and biblical assertions in your discussion.

Which biblical deity is the real "god", the jealous, vengeful, capricious, murderous one described in the OT or some other?
You respect that belief?
That's what she believes. I'm not obligated to agree with her just because we're married. People believe some really, really bizarre things. Someone on TOL even believes the Earth is flat.
 

Nihilo

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Please explain how "god" dies. Do your best to avoid logical inconsistencies and biblical assertions in your discussion.

Which biblical deity is the real "god", the jealous, vengeful, capricious, murderous one described in the OT or some other?
That's what she believes. I'm not obligated to agree with her just because we're married. People believe some really, really bizarre things. Someone on TOL even believes the Earth is flat.
So you love and respect your wife's belief that Jesus Christ rose from the dead? Don't distract yourself with Trinity questions. A man died, and then he was buried, and then he rose from the dead. You love and respect that belief? That's what you said, right?
 

Nihilo

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Please explain how "god" dies. Do your best to avoid logical inconsistencies and biblical assertions in your discussion.

Which biblical deity is the real "god", the jealous, vengeful, capricious, murderous one described in the OT or some other?
A man died, and then he was buried, and then he rose from the dead.
If that Man is the Maker "made flesh" (Jn1:14KJV ; cf. Jn1:1KJV), how does that change anything?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=church+ho...gotha&t=disconnect&iar=images&iax=1&ia=images
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
Please explain how "god" dies. Do your best to avoid logical inconsistencies and biblical assertions in your discussion.

Which biblical deity is the real "god", the jealous, vengeful, capricious, murderous one described in the OT or some other?
That's what she believes. I'm not obligated to agree with her just because we're married. People believe some really, really bizarre things. Someone on TOL even believes the Earth is flat.
So you love and respect your wife's belief that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
I love my wife, what she believes religiously, while as fundamentally flawed as a belief in a flat Earth, I respect because I love her.
Don't distract yourself with Trinity questions.
That's not a distraction. The question asked goes directly to the thread, I wish to stay on topic.

Please explain how "god" dies. Do your best to avoid logical inconsistencies and biblical assertions in your discussion.

Which biblical deity is the real "god", the jealous, vengeful, capricious, murderous one described in the OT or some other?
A man died, and then he was buried, and then he rose from the dead.
Please explain how "god" dies. Do your best to avoid logical inconsistencies and biblical assertions in your discussion.
A man died, and then he was buried, and then he rose from the dead. You love and respect that belief? That's what you said, right?
No. You obviously comprehend what you want to read into what I wrote which seems to match the way you read the bible.
 

Nihilo

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A man died, and then he was buried, and then he rose from the dead. You love and respect that belief? That's what you said, right?
No. You obviously comprehend what you want to read into what I wrote which seems to match the way you read the bible.
You wrote this:
My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love and respect her and the beliefs she holds dear? Really?
Do you or do you not love and respect that Jesus Christ rose from the dead? That's the belief your wife holds dear. That's it. You don't have to come to terms with the Trinity, you have to come to terms with the Resurrection.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
If that Man is the Maker "made flesh" (Jn1:14KJV ; cf. Jn1:1KJV), how does that change anything?
It seems you don't comprehend G John any better than the characters in the book or any other trinitarian. I'd explain your error but doing so would be a waste of bandwidth and a duplication of explanations from other posters. To be blunt, Jesus delivers the word (John 3:34) and is not the word itself.
Do you or do you not love and respect that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
Why should I? I don't "love" your belief but I can respect it no matter how closely I think it mimics a belief in a flat Earth. You see, your question avoids the one I asked, how can "god" die? It matters not "god" coming back to life after being dead three days if "god" cannot die.
That's the belief your wife holds dear. That's it. You don't have to come to terms with the Trinity, you have to come to terms with the Resurrection.
Well, no, I don't HAVE to do anything. If you've read my posts closely you would know I'm working from a phone so I don't guarantee every nuance of syntax. I'm relying on the reader to not be overly obtuse.
 

Nihilo

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It seems you don't comprehend G John any better than the characters in the book or any other trinitarian. I'd explain your error but doing so would be a waste of bandwidth and a duplication of explanations from other posters. To be blunt, Jesus delivers the word (John 3:34) and is not the word itself.
Uh-huh. Yeah Daqq (@daqq) told me all about it. So your position is that I should think that the Man Who rose from the dead, and Who promised that His Church would not be prevailed against by the gates of hell, lied? Not only did He rise from the dead, but He also lied? That's what I'm supposed to think happened? Thanks but no thanks, I don't buy into conspiracy theories.
Why should I? I don't "love" your belief but I can respect it no matter how closely I think it mimics a belief in a flat Earth. You see, your question avoids the one I asked, how can "god" die? It matters not "god" coming back to life after being dead three days if "god" cannot die.
No I'm not avoiding your question at all, you rather continue to ignore that I am only quoting you verbatim and asking if you meant it or not.

You could just answer it. 'A thought.
Well, no, I don't HAVE to do anything. If you've read my posts closely you would know I'm working from a phone so I don't guarantee every nuance of syntax. I'm relying on the reader to not be overly obtuse.
If you want to care at all about your wife's Christian faith in the Resurrection, then figure out how it feels to be her, and believe the Resurrection.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
Uh-huh. Yeah Daqq (@daqq) told me all about it. So your position is that I should think that the Man Who rose from the dead, and Who promised that His Church would not be prevailed against by the gates of hell, lied? Not only did He rise from the dead, but He also lied? That's what I'm supposed to think happened? Thanks but no thanks, I don't buy into conspiracy theories.
Jesus, the man-god, started a church, died, rose from the dead, and went to heaven? My friend, those are beliefs based on a very liberal explication of a "holy scripture" of dubious origin about a person who, in all probability, never existed. You might want to dispense with the obtuse commentary, what "lies" are you referencing?
No I'm not avoiding your question at all,
Sure you are, because you know that to answer honestly will expose your belief for how unreasonable and illogical it is.
you rather continue to ignore that I am only quoting you verbatim and asking if you meant it or not.
This has been explained to you, take it or not.
You could just answer it. 'A thought.
Done. Don't like the answer? Tough!
If you want to care at all about your wife's Christian faith in the Resurrection, then figure out how it feels to be her, and believe the Resurrection.
I told you to read my posts carefully and not be too obtuse. I think I was reasonably clear in an earlier post I once believed as my wife. Christianity is a myth probably created by Paul. I could violate Pascal's Wager but I doubt I can force myself to believe something I no longer do. I gave up childish things long ago, it's a pity you and my sweet wife are unable to do the same.
 

Nihilo

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Jesus, the man-god, started a church, died, rose from the dead, and went to heaven? My friend, those are beliefs based on a very liberal explication of a "holy scripture" of dubious origin about a person who, in all probability, never existed. You might want to dispense with the obtuse commentary, what "lies" are you referencing?
Sure you are, because you know that to answer honestly will expose your belief for how unreasonable and illogical it is.
This has been explained to you, take it or not.
Done. Don't like the answer? Tough!
I told you to read my posts carefully and not be too obtuse. I think I was reasonably clear in an earlier post I once believed as my wife. Christianity is a myth probably created by Paul. I could violate Pascal's Wager but I doubt I can force myself to believe something I no longer do. I gave up childish things long ago, it's a pity you and my sweet wife are unable to do the same.
When you first heard that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, did you really believe it happened then, or were you even then above it all, and thought that it was a myth?

And provide your explanation, if you say you really did believe it when young, for why the Apostles and others like James the Just and Stephen, subjected themselves willingly, testifying to the Resurrection, to various death penalties. I've got a cynical theory, and I want to compare notes.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
When you first heard that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, did you really believe it happened then, or were you even then above it all, and thought that it was a myth?
Which part of, "I think I was reasonably clear in an earlier post I once believed as my wife", did you not understand? I was exposed to christianity as a child but had that exposure happened as an adult I'm reasonably certain I would have been as skeptical as you would be when introduced to a religion differing from the one you were born into.
And provide your explanation, if you say you really did believe it when young, for why the Apostles and others like James the Just and Stephen, subjected themselves willingly, testifying to the Resurrection, to various death penalties. I've got a cynical theory, and I want to compare notes.
Please explain, exactly, how, "The Apostles and others like James the Just and Stephen, (who supposedly) subjected themselves willingly, testifying to the Resurrection, to various death penalties", are different from the people who would fly airplanes into buildings or blow themselves up by strapping explosives around their bodies, or burn themselves soaked in gasoline for the sake of their religious beliefs.
 

Nihilo

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Please explain, exactly, how, "The Apostles and others like James the Just and Stephen, (who supposedly) subjected themselves willingly, testifying to the Resurrection, to various death penalties", are different from the people who would fly airplanes into buildings or blow themselves up by strapping explosives around their bodies, or burn themselves soaked in gasoline for the sake of their religious beliefs.
Oh my, are you an idiot.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Which part of, "I think I was reasonably clear in an earlier post I once believed as my wife", did you not understand? I was exposed to christianity as a child but had that exposure happened as an adult I'm reasonably certain I would have been as skeptical as you would be when introduced to a religion differing from the one you were born into.
Please explain, exactly, how, "The Apostles and others like James the Just and Stephen, (who supposedly) subjected themselves willingly, testifying to the Resurrection, to various death penalties", are different from the people who would fly airplanes into buildings or blow themselves up by strapping explosives around their bodies, or burn themselves soaked in gasoline for the sake of their religious beliefs.
Could be that they were murdered whilst terrorists commit suicide?

Also, can I ask? why did you lose your faith? Thanks
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
Could be that they were murdered whilst terrorists commit suicide?
While a better response than Nihilo lacking the ad hominem, the point is that "true believers" are willing to sacrifice their lives for what is important to them, the method (martyrdom is essentially suicide by cop) makes no difference.
Also, can I ask? why did you lose your faith? Thanks
Essentially, all "god theories", christianity more than any other, failed the BS test.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Daqq,

You, as Keypurr have sworn upon your souls to fear belief that Jesus is God, or that God would marry to our flesh, out of Love and the foundation of our atonement...

Why do you limit God and choose to exalt the Law of Moses as your God?

Lol, Matthew Ch. 5 is full of Torah . . .
Here is something of interest pertaining to your false remarks:

Matthew 5:34-37
34 But I say to you, Swear not at all; neither by the heavens, for it is the throne of Elohim:
35 Nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
36 Neither shall you swear by your head; for you can not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your speech be, "Yea, yea", "Nay, nay", and whatever is in excess of these is of the evil one.


By the way, "God", or "Elohim", is not the same thing as the Name of the Father. And also by the way, God does not "marry flesh", but that is rather your fleshly imagination working overtime for you again. The Master tells you that the flesh profits nothing: you should try believing that in all of your doctrine sometime. Otherwise how is that literal physical blood drinking and eating the literal physical flesh of God working out for you? You know that you need to be consistent in your method of interpretation, right? You cannot be a side-winding slithering snake weaving your way through the scripture because that just makes you another old school Pharisee. If you are going to see what you want as fleshly and physical then you also need to go get all your males circumcised and start keeping all the "works of the law" according to the Sanhedrin rulings and the Pharisees because Messiah has done you no good whatsoever, (because you have nullified his teachings, which are Spirit, with your physical and carnal mindset). If you do not eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life in you; and what will you do? tell me that passage is supposed to be understood "spiritually"? If you do then you are a hypocrite. Acquit yourself like a man! (1Cor 16:13 ASV). :chuckle:

Oh yeah, as for your second comment which I highlighted in red; it is you who exalts the Torah as your God, unless of course you are another one of those wackos who calls Stephen a liar:

Acts 7:37-38 TLV (Tree of Life Version)
37 This is the Moses who said to Bnei-Yisrael, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers.’
38 “This is the one who was in the community in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers. He received living words to pass on to us.


Yep, Living Words, Living Sayings, Living Oracles, that is the Torah, (Teachings), and I know that will probably cause you to blow a gasket and a main seal but the Torah is The Word, the Living Word, the Logos, the Son of Elohim Almighty, because Testimony is Spirit and the Torah contains the Word of the Father, the same Logos-Word whom you erroneously claim to be the Father Himself. You better hope that hell is just an allegorical parable. :crackup:
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love and respect her and the beliefs she holds dear? Really?
The post above should read:

"My wife is a christian and believes in a deity similar to the one your imagination has constructed I suspect. Do you honestly believe I don't love her and respect the beliefs she holds dear? Really?"

I apologize for the confusion this has caused the more obtuse members of the audience.

:e4e:
 
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