Jesus is God.
- Thread starter jzeidler
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God's Truth
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I know I can believe what I want, and you are not my judge.
The trinity doctrine is false, BUT THERE ARE THREE.
The Holy Spirit IS THE Spirit of God.
That proves now that there are two that you do not recognize.
You said earlier that you do not know much.
God's Truth
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Right on! Amen.
God's Truth
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Do you know what that scripture means and what Jesus was saying?
What does that mean?
Scripture clearly, repeatedly and formally states that Jesus is a man - never does scripture state that Jesus is ontologically God.
"there is one God - AND (someone other than the one God) - the MAN Christ Jesus (ITim2:5).
God's Truth
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Who are you talking to?
GT,
I'm only trying to interject this out of respect to Mar. and You.
Jesus made it clear in 1 John that one must recognize that the Son is from the Father. Now the difficulty is that this is a duel reference to the Son being of the Substance of the Father as well as humanity.
It is clear that the Spirit of Truth (I AM the way, the TRUTH and the light) could only be revealed in full within mankind until after Jesus died and resurrected of the Father.
You have a Oneness view, but recognize the genuine relationship of the Father and the Son.
I can't fully remember Mars' view on this matter.
But to be completely honest, the only deviations that really exist in the BoC are found in Absolute Recognition of the Three Witnesses of The Godhead.
Colossians 2:
2 that their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love unto all the riches of the full assurance of understanding, that they may acknowledge the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ, (Some translations use the word Godhead in this verse)
And of course Arianism, The idea that Jesus wasn't God, or the reduced Deity of Jesus (Sinful Spirit) struggling to be Perfect, or Simply created to be a God.
The separation of the substances vs the oneness of the substance is a complex argument to try to pinpoint the exact nature of the 3 beautiful expressions of God.
One thing to note. Arian theology was wiped out, in error and ignorance to Christ's commission of Love to all, by the commissioned murder of its believers by the Trinitatian leadership.
Also, on the Arian side of errors, the Arians converted to Islam much easier, because they agreed that Jesus wasn't God, and embraced the structure of religious ritual of Islam.
Modern Arianism is the simple fact that Jesus is understood differently by many, and the same is true for the great Trinitatian debate.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Scripture says Jesus is man, yes, but it also clearly states he is God. Jesus has two natures - Divine and human, from his Father and mother - perfectly joined in one person.
Quote from the link I provided:
".............In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).
In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")
In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus "[w]ho, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be g.asped" (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was "in very nature God."
Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).
This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: "When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17). "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’" (Rev. 2:8). "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:12–13).
This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title "the Alpha and the Omega," which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: "‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).
Jesus is God.
Matthew 26
63 But Jesus kept silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “By the living God I place You under oath: tell us if You are the Messiah, the Son of God!”
64 “You have said it,” Jesus told him. “But I tell you, in the future you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! Why do we still need witnesses? Look, now you’ve heard the blasphemy! 66 What is your decision?”
~ Jesus is referring to Himself as the Cloud by Day, Fire by night and the Glory above the Ark of the Covenant in Mt 26:64
He indeed professed He IS and Was and Always Will Be the I Am that I Am.
He would have been a psycho to have spoken the words of vs. 64 to the Sanhedrin if He were not claiming to be God. He could have been released from death on the cross, if He did not speak plainly there. He could have said; Woh, wait a minute. I mean Son of God like you. I'm not God! Don't kill me! Instead He referred to Himself in the Higheat way possible!
Isaiah 43
11 "I alone am the Lord, the only one who can save you. 12 I predicted what would happen, and then I came to your aid. No foreign god has ever done this; you are my witnesses. 13 I am God and always will be. No one can escape from my power; no one can change what I do." 14 Israel's holy God, the Lord who saves you, says, "To save you, I will send an army against Babylon; I will break down the city gates, and the shouts of her people will turn into crying. 15 I am the Lord, your holy God. I created you, Israel, and I am your king." 16 Long ago the Lord made a road through the sea, a path through the swirling waters
According to YHWH or JHVH, pick your choice,
Only God can be the Messiah.
If this were not so, then God would be a liar in the NT.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Matthew 26
63 But Jesus kept silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “By the living God I place You under oath: tell us if You are the Messiah, the Son of God!”
64 “You have said it,” Jesus told him. “But I tell you, in the future you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! Why do we still need witnesses? Look, now you’ve heard the blasphemy! 66 What is your decision?”
~ Jesus is referring to Himself as the Cloud by Day, Fire by night and the Glory above the Ark of the Covenant in Mt 26:64
He indeed professed He IS and Was and Always Will Be the I Am that I Am.
He would have been a psycho to have spoken the words of vs. 64 to the Sanhedrin if He were not claiming to be God. He could have been released from death on the cross, if He did not speak plainly there. He could have said; Woh, wait a minute. I mean Son of God like you. I'm not God! Don't kill me! Instead He referred to Himself in the Higheat way possible!
Isaiah 43
11 "I alone am the Lord, the only one who can save you. 12 I predicted what would happen, and then I came to your aid. No foreign god has ever done this; you are my witnesses. 13 I am God and always will be. No one can escape from my power; no one can change what I do." 14 Israel's holy God, the Lord who saves you, says, "To save you, I will send an army against Babylon; I will break down the city gates, and the shouts of her people will turn into crying. 15 I am the Lord, your holy God. I created you, Israel, and I am your king." 16 Long ago the Lord made a road through the sea, a path through the swirling waters
According to YHWH or JHVH, pick your choice,
Only God can be the Messiah.
If this were not so, then God would be a liar in the NT.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
God's Truth
New member
The HUMAN Son is from the Father.
Jesus SAID HE is the TRUTH and the life WHEN HE WALKED THE EARTH.
Correct yourself in the truth.
Just debate me according to the scriptures.
As for what I know about the oneness Pentecostals, they believe Jesus is God the Father, but that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit do not exist at the same time. I do not believe like that.
Just speak about the scriptures.
Why do you talk about mere men?
Just speak about the scriptures.
What are you talking about?
Speak according to the scriptures, or do not speak.
That's pretty rude, especially coming from someone who has a lot of bad interpretations of Scripture himself (or herself, whatever the case may be).
Pay no attention to GT
God's Truth
New member
Do you know what speak according to the scriptures mean?
It means your Catechism is worthless garbage.
It's a goofy term that pinheads use. I speak the Truth. Tha's all that matters.
LOL! And all THAT post means is that you are ignorant of the Scriptures AND the Catechism. You'd better get a new screen name Francis.
Sister,
You are correct, had I quoted the verse about the way, the truth and the life, it would have been "Life"
I was referencing that verse and
John 1 simultaneously.
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 All things were created through Him,
and apart from Him not one thing was created
that has been created.
4 Life was in Him,
and that life was the light of men.
5 That light shines in the darkness,
yet the darkness did not overcome it.
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The rest of my words were to speak that mankind divides under the assertion that Jesus was God, was not, or was partially God.
--------------
I was also referring to 1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
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I was then pointing out that the divisions amongst men are Trinity, Oness, Arian and a type of semi Arian.
Trinity and Oness alike are not evil as they acknowledge that Jesus was of the Father and God.
Arians are afraid of calling Jesus God, because they believe that would be putting an Idle before God.
Semi Arians (other titles used) reduce Jesus to God with Sinful flesh and soul that was limited. They assert that the Holy Spirit is essentially the Father and Jesus was able to be perfect in Obedience by fleshly toil.
The Trinitarians had the Arians killed in the early years following Jesus.
Others converted to Islam as they shared the idea that Jesus wasn't God and agreed with monotheistic laws and religious observance.
I apologize for thinking you were Oness.
I should have asked you.
I know you believe in the 3 expressions of God, so I really stopped asking after that had been established.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
LOL! That stupidity is what you call speaking in Scriptures?
God's nature is Divine, not human.
The Father gave the Son His Divine nature.
Jesus' mother, who is human, gave her son his human nature.
SO: Jesus is fully God (Divine) and fully man (human), two natures perfectly joined in the one person, Jesus Christ:
>> THE 'HYPOSTATIC' UNION
Jesus is God.
Direct Examples of the divisions in ideologies:
Catholics: Trinity or indeed Hypostatic Union
Majority of Protestants: Same as Catholics
Oneness Pentecostals: Oness
Jehovahs Wittinesses: Arian
Seventh Day Adventists: Semi Arian
Full Denial: Islam
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Direct Examples of the divisions in ideologies:
Catholics: Trinity or indeed Hypostatic Union
Majority of Protestants: Same as Catholics
Oneness Pentecostals: Oness
Jehovahs Wittinesses: Arian
Seventh Day Adventists: Semi Arian
Full Denial: Islam
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
lifeisgood
New member
Spoiler
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our Eloheem[PLURAL] is one[SINGULAR] Jehovah.
You do not believe your own Tanach rejecting your Suffering Servant.
Where is the altar where you offer your lamb to cover your sin?
Who is your high priest that your lamb can be approved for sacrificing?
Where is your Temple where you must go three times a year?
You are a very religious man but very UNsaved exactly as the ones who demanded that Jesus be crucified because He did not fit their idea of God's Savior.
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