Jesus is God.

[beameup]

As for the devil talking to me. Well, the spirit inside me is teaching me to stop sinning. Would the devil do that? Or tell you that even if you wilfully sin your saved? Think about that.

I believe that. God teaches that we must suffer and deny our flesh and bare our cross turn from sin and obey him. And Jesus showed us the way.

And I believe that Satan teaches that your saved already, so don't worry if your wilfully sin, nothing you can do can turn you from God, live your life, your still going to heaven

Jesus said this, those who endure to the end the same shall be saved.

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If your focus is on yourself and your focus is on "not sinning", then that is not of the Holy Spirit.
That was a common problem beginning in the 2nd century when the monasteries were formed and hermits would beat themselves and sit atop poles. Luther endured that psychological and physical self-punishment until he got freed by the Holy Spirit.

"Walking in the Holy Spirit" gets your "eyes" off yourself and onto others, where you can be used by God.
Obviously you are trying to apply those portions of the New Testament that apply to those who will suffer the Great Tribulation. Those scriptures are not for present day application.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. - John 8:36

 

[marhig]

If Jesus had saved us from our flesh then we would be free. However, we aren't free of it. It is with us that we overcome it and that by abiding in Christ. God wanted Adam to grasp that truth. He didn't.

The testing to us is by the world to our flesh directed at our soul, to make it "fall short of the glory of God". The new birth from above is purposed to "impart" [not impute] the LOVE and power of God within us as you accurately understand. "God loves those who love Him". When we give in to our flesh, we cut off His access route to our soul by hindering His Spirit. Death can be the result when we don't repent.

Well I absolutely agree with this. I think I may have written it wrong to what I mean about being saved from my flesh.

I mean that our flesh sins, but once we turn away from sin and our lusts by following Jesus, and as you rightly put it abiding in him, through him, God sends us his spirit, and he guides us, gives us a stronger conscience and teaches us the things of God. Showing us right from wrong, and we are to obey him.

If I listen and obey God, then the spirit will be helping me and giving me strength to overcome. But we will suffer, in many different ways. Anyone who truly follow Christ, suffers. I've experienced this. But, God strengthens us and the rewards are amazing, the peace I feel inside is unbelievable. I feel free, and I absolutely know that there's a living God. I have no doubt whatsoever, and I'm truly blessed that he's chosen me to know him. I don't want to let him down, and i know that I have to fight myself, and deny my flesh.

 

[marhig]

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If your focus is on yourself and your focus is on "not sinning", then that is not of the Holy Spirit.
That was a common problem beginning in the 2nd century when the monasteries were formed and hermits would beat themselves and sit atop poles. Luther endured that psychological and physical self-punishment until he got freed by the Holy Spirit.

"Walking in the Holy Spirit" gets your "eyes" off yourself and onto others, where you can be used by God.
Obviously you are trying to apply those portions of the New Testament that apply to those who will suffer the Great Tribulation. Those scriptures are not for present day application.

If God says it's wrong to sin, then it's wrong to sin. We must obey him. Jesus clearly told the woman caught in adultery go sin no more. Satan wants us to sin, just like he tricked Adam and eve, he will trick us if he gets the chance. Sinning and our fleshly lusts take us away from God, loving him and obedience brings us closer.

Just wondering, what do you think that Jesus meant when he said that we must deny ourselves then?

Oh, and because I deny myself and don't put myself first, my focus is on God and it is on others. Because God encourages my heart to care and help so so much more than I would if I lived by my fleshly will

And I am free!

 

[beameup]

The more you focus on yourself and your "sinning", the worse it gets.
Read Paul's dilemma in Romans 7:13-25

The Devil wants to keep your mind "focused on yourself" (the Devil's treadmill) so that you cannot hear and obey the H.S.

BTW, Jesus told the adultress not to return to adultery. It is not possible to "not sin"... unless you are dead.

 

[Cross Reference]

Well I absolutely agree with this. I think I may have written it wrong to what I mean about being saved from my flesh.

I mean that our flesh sins, but once we turn away from sin and our lusts by following Jesus, and as you rightly put it abiding in him, through him, God sends us his spirit, and he guides us, gives us a stronger conscience and teaches us the things of God. Showing us right from wrong, and we are to obey him.

If I listen and obey God, then the spirit will be helping me and giving me strength to overcome. But we will suffer, in many different ways. Anyone who truly follow Christ, suffers. I've experienced this. But, God strengthens us and the rewards are amazing, the peace I feel inside is unbelievable. I feel free, and I absolutely know that there's a living God. I have no doubt whatsoever, and I'm truly blessed that he's chosen me to know him. I don't want to let him down, and i know that I have to fight myself, and deny my flesh.

That is the CORRECT spirit of ourselves that can only rule the day! Love Him and do as you please. In the light of your understanding of what it means to "know" Him, God will be the only One you will desire to please. That leaves one with the chore of burning all his many self-help books by Christian psychologists. I am sincerely delighted for you!! {John 17:3}

 

[Cross Reference]

The more you focus on yourself and your "sinning", the worse it gets.
Read Paul's dilemma in Romans 7:13-25

The Devil wants to keep your mind "focused on yourself" (the Devil's treadmill) so that you cannot hear and obey the H.S.

BTW, Jesus told the adultress not to return to adultery. It is not possible to "not sin"... unless you are dead.

He did indeed tell her that, however, what if she didn't follow up in establishing her new found relationship with Jesus?

 

[marhig]

The more you focus on yourself and your "sinning", the worse it gets.
Read Paul's dilemma in Romans 7:13-25

The Devil wants to keep your mind "focused on yourself" (the Devil's treadmill) so that you cannot hear and obey the H.S.

BTW, Jesus told the adultress not to return to adultery. It is not possible to "not sin"... unless you are dead.

We all sin, but we don't have to wilfully sin. There is a difference and we have a choice.

I don't focus on my sinning, I focus on obeying God. And I'm definitely not getting worse, my heart is being changed by the spirit and I don't do the things I would have done before.

To me, obedience to the holy spirit is to listen when he guides us away from sin. When we know it's wrong to do it, I believe we should stop and deny ourselves. Our flesh is full of lust and wants us to sin , Satan wants us to sin, God wants us to stop sinning

You seem to believe that I'm listening to Satan, why would he be trying to stop me sinning?

And what do you believe it means to deny yourself? Thanks

 

[marhig]

He did indeed tell her that, however, what if she didn't follow up in establishing her new found relationship with Jesus?

Then she not obeying him, and she will be back living by the will of the flesh.

This is what Jesus said to the man that was by the pool in the porches of Solomon's temple, after he had healed him

John 5

And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

We can't take God for granted and live our own lives, once we repent and our past sins are forgiven and we have faith in God and follow Jesus, then we are to stop doing things wrong when we know in our hearts that it's wrong before God. I believe that this is denying ourselves.

These are my very beliefs, I can't in my heart believe that I can wilfully sin and God will just say don't worry your still saved.

To me, if I have the spirit in my heart, then i should be turning from sin.

 

[marhig]

That is the CORRECT spirit of ourselves that can only rule the day! Love Him and do as you please. In the light of your understanding of what it means to "know" Him, God will be the only One you will desire to please. That leaves one with the chore of burning all his many self-help books by Christian psychologists. I am sincerely delighted for you!! {John 17:3}

What do you mean by Christian self help books?

I only read the Bible

By the way, I read John 17, I really enjoyed it and we read it on our house meeting. It clearly shows to me though, that Jesus isn't God.

 

[Cross Reference]

The scriptures tell us to be conformed to His Image. Whose image it was but that of Jesus Christ. Not God but a man who relates to us by His flesh. When we "see" Him is when we should have the desire, placed within us by His resurrection life to be like Him, as He is. Pure love works that way. This same desire should rule our lives that by it we will learn to be overcomers in this material world we are subjected to, purposed to prepare for eternity as "Heirs of God and Joint Heirs with Jesus".

 

[Cross Reference]

What do you mean by Christian self help books?

I only read the Bible

By the way, I read John 17, I really enjoyed it and we read it on our house meeting. It clearly shows to me though, that Jesus isn't God.

Don't be too adamant with that opinion because you are only partly correct. In the flesh Jesus dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead in unglorified human flesh. Fullness to His flesh to the Fullest. The only way Jesus could have had more could be when He was glorified. So, with that in mind, Jesus, by the foreknowledge of God, was God limite by His earthbound existence.. . . soon to be addressed as "Almighty God", "Peace of Peace", "Everlasting Father" thus fulfilling Isa 9:6 KJV.

It is obvious to me that that is how you have come to your understanding, able to sort out the issue as you have. I am even more delighted you own no self-help books or commentaries.

 

[marhig]

The scriptures tell us to be conformed to His Image. Whose image it was but that of Jesus Christ. Not God but a man who relates to us by His flesh. When we "see" Him is when we should have the desire placed within us by His resurrection life to be like Him, as He is. Pure love works that way. This same desire should rule our lives that by it we will learn to be overcomers in this material world we are subjected to, purposed to prepare for eternity as "Heirs of God and Joint Heirs with Jesus".

That's great and really well put, thanks

Yes God doesn't want to see our flesh, he wants to see the life of his son in us and through us.

And if we are raised with him, then we will walk in his walk and we will obey his commandments and love God with all our hearts, soul, mind as strength and our neighbour as ourselves, just like Jesus did. God is love, and if we love God and obey him, then the light of Christ should be shining through us to bring others back to God.

 

[marhig]

Don't get too heavey with that opinion because you are only partly correct. In the flesh Jesus delt all the fullness of God. Fullness to His flesh to the Fullest. They only way Jesus could have had more could be when He was glorified. So, with that in mind, Jesus, by the foreknowledge of God, was God.

It is obvious to me that that is how you have come to your understanding, able to sort out the issue as you have. I am even more delighted you own no self-help books or commentaries.

To me, Jesus is the son of God, but Gods spirit dwelt in him fully, so in that way, we saw only God through him, because he didn't do his will, but the will of God always. So God poured the fullness of his spirit into his heart and he was in his express image. But I don't believe that he was God.

He did say that God was his God. And I have to believe his words.

 

[Cross Reference]

Then she not obeying him, and she will be back living by the will of the flesh.

This is what Jesus said to the man that was by the pool in the porches if Solomon's temple, after he had healed him

John 5

And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in*that*place. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.*

We can't take God for granted and live our own lives, once we repent and our past sins are forgiven and we have faith in God and follow Jesus, then we are to stop doing things wrong when we know in our hearts that it's wrong before God. I believe that this is denying ourselves.

These are my very beliefs, I can't in my heart believe that I can wilfully sin and God will just say don't worry your still saved.

To me, if I have the spirit in my heart, then i should be turning from sin.

Exactly. Seek to keep your desire TO Him alive by 24-7 worship. That is now to be your life when you speak of it..i.e., success in life by His indwelling life.

Get a hold of the booklet, "The Practice of the Presence of God". Ask around.

 

[beameup]

He did indeed tell her that, however, what if she didn't follow up in establishing her new found relationship with Jesus?

Obviously He knew that she believed he was Messiah. He was demonstrating that He had the right to forgive sinners that put their trust in Him.

 

[marhig]

Exactly. Seek to keep your desire TO Him alive by 24-7 worship. That is now to be your life when you speak of it..i.e., success in life by His indwelling life.

Get a hold of the booklet, "The Practice of the Presence of God". Ask around.

I was saying that in our house meeting last week. That it grieves God if we forget him, and that we should have him in our heart and mind always. Like you said 24-7 worship, Jesus told us to be ready, how can we be ready when we put God to the back of our minds and hearts and put our flesh and own life first? If we worship him in spirit and in truth, then we will worship him 24-7. And we will be pondering on what we've heard and we will be seeing and hearing him in everything around us. And we will love him before everything else especially ourselves.

And success is definitely only achieved by his indwelling spirit, if we're not raised with Christ and we don't have the indwelling spirit then Satan will have a field day with us. Without the indwelling spirit we are dead, he is the breath of life.

 

[beameup]

We all sin, but we don't have to wilfully sin. There is a difference and we have a choice.

I suspect you have been reading Hebrews 10. Hebrews was written to those Jews that had become believers but still followed Judaism (Moses' Law). Unless you know a lot about Judaism, it's hard to understand.

You seem to believe that I'm listening to Satan, why would he be trying to stop me sinning?

Satan wants you to be "SELF-CENTERED". The Devil delights when you are constantly worried about where you stand with God. He wants you to live in fear and worry that you are "falling short" of what God expects.

 

[Cross Reference]

I suspect you have been reading Hebrews 10. Hebrews was written to those Jews that had become believers but still followed Judaism (Moses' Law). Unless you know a lot about Judaism, it's hard to understand.


Satan wants you to be "SELF-CENTERED". The Devil delights when you are constantly worried about where you stand with God. He wants you to live in fear and worry that you are "falling short" of what God expects.

Satan would have us believe because Hebrews was so-called written to the Jews that it doesn't apply to gentile Christians when common sense reveals Hebrews 6 to be for all Christians, Jew and Gentile. There are no 2 types Christians when God has stated He will make out the 2, 1 new man.

 

[marhig]

I suspect you have been reading Hebrews 10. Hebrews was written to those Jews that had become believers but still followed Judaism (Moses' Law). Unless you know a lot about Judaism, it's hard to understand.


Satan wants you to be "SELF-CENTERED". The Devil delights when you are constantly worried about where you stand with God. He wants you to live in fear and worry that you are "falling short" of what God expects.

To be honest, I believe that there is only one gospel, and it's for all of us, but I really don't want to get into that again, I've been through all that in the last couple of days

And I think God delights in us worshipping him. And he does chastise us when we go wrong

Hebrews 12

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Philippians 2

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I feel that it's good to fear God, but although I fear him, I'm still free. I feel like legion and I'm now in my right mind. God has shown me that the things that I thought so highly of, mean nothing. Material things aren't important and my heart is focused on pleasing God.

I dont think that's a bad thing to fear God, it humbles us, it's good and shows that we reverence him.

 

[beameup]

Satan would have us believe because Hebrews was so-called written to the Jews that it doesn't apply to gentile Christians when common sense reveals Hebrews 6 to be for all Christians, Jew and Gentile. There are no 2 types Christians when God has stated He will make out the 2, 1 new man.

There are no more Jewish "Sect of the Nazarenes" believers because the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., and the Nation of Israel failed to repent as a Nation.
However, there are now 350 Messianic Congregations in Israel, and it is growing.
These "Christians" are Torah Observant Messianics, and so Hebrews is very relevant, and will become even more-so during the Tribulation. The "one new man" expires at the Rapture.
Many Gentiles in the Body of Christ have stumbled over the book of Hebrews, teaching that you can lose your salvation, because they don't understand the book.
If you want the purest theology for the Body of Christ, read and observe Paul's Epistles.