Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah

[marhig]

• Prove that assertion with scripture.
• Where will this kingdom come?

The new Jerusalem is a CITY that comes DOWN from HEAVEN per Revelation 21.

It's too bad that you prefer a myth to the truth.

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen

What do you think it means when we ask for Gods kingdom to come? It's a daily prayer so what are we asking for daily by asking for Gods kingdom to come?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Here is a better translation:

"that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19; NIV).​

That translation matches perfectly what is said here:

"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).​

No Jerry, the NIV is wrong.

God was and now is in Christ--

2Co 5:19 To wit,G5613 thatG3754 GodG2316 wasG2258 inG1722 Christ,G5547 reconcilingG2644 the worldG2889 unto himself,G1438 notG3361 imputingG3049 theirG846 trespassesG3900 unto them;G846 andG2532 hath committedG5087 untoG1722 usG2254 theG3588 wordG3056 of reconciliation.G2643

How will you change this verse--

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

and these--

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Why are you being so dishonest with scripture Jerry.

LA

 

[Right Divider]

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen

What do you think it means when we ask for Gods kingdom to come? It's a daily prayer so what are we asking for daily by asking for Gods kingdom to come?

• Thanks for completely IGNORING the NEW JERUSALEM that comes DOWN from heaven.
• The minister of the circumcision taught members of the circumcision to pray that prayer about their kingdom.
• Why do YOU think that YOU are a member of the circumcision like them?
• The kingdom comes to EARTH, which is a physical place.
• OUR Father is referring to ISRAEL; His son (Exodus 4:22).
• When the kingdom DOES come, the new Jerusalem will be its capital.

 

[jamie]

The minister of the circumcision taught members of the circumcision to pray that prayer about their kingdom.

Why did he do that?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why are you being so dishonest with scripture Jerry.

Let this be a warning to anyone who would dare try to have a discussion with the person named "Lazy afternoon." If you have a disagreement with that person be prepared to have your character assassinated. I will no longer discuss anything with that person.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That's in your opinion, if Jesus was in the fullness God, and he was in the express image of God, then he was in the form of God.

No, its not just my opinion but instead the definition given by a well known Greek expert named Joseph Henry Thayer:

"the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).​

On the biblicalunitarian web site we read:

"The real definition of 'morphe' should become apparent as we check the sources available at the time of the New Testament. After all, the word was a common one in the Greek world. We assert that a study of the actual evidence clearly reveals that morphe does not refer to Christ’s inner essential being, but rather to an outward appearance."​

On the same site we read:

"The Gospel of Mark has a short reference to the well-known story in Luke 24:13-33 about Jesus appearing to the two men on the road to Emmaus. Mark tells us that Jesus appeared 'in a different form (morphe)' to these two men so that they did not recognize him (16:12). This is very clear. Jesus did not have a different 'essential nature' when he appeared to the two disciples. He simply had a different outward appearance."​

This fits perfectly with the idea that the word means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision."

And the verse in Isaiah 9:6 doesn't mean that Jesus is God!

Then what does it mean?:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

I would suggest that it is practically speaking of the same thing that the Lord Jesus says here in "bold": :

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

 

[Zeke]

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen

What do you think it means when we ask for Gods kingdom to come? It's a daily prayer so what are we asking for daily by asking for Gods kingdom to come?

To come within us which is the stating point of revelation Galatians 1:12, Luke 17:20-21, The esoteric/letter outlook has a hope in the future while esoteric/Spirit lives in eternity now.

 

[daqq]

I wonder if a "phantasma" can traverse through walls and locked doors?
I guess not all flesh is the same flesh . . . :wave:

oly:

Hmmm, well, I was just thinking of the places where the Master comes traversing upon the water, in the fourth watch of the night, and seeing him the disciples become terrified, thinking and exclaiming, "It is a phantasma!", and he answers them, "Be of good cheer, I AM!", but of course the masters of the universe do not want εγω ειμι to mean "I am" in that place so they render it negatively as if to say, "(No), Be of good cheer, it is I."

Let us consider that the essence of the resurrection is 'spiritual'; it is a transformation of one's form by the act of natural and/or supernatural laws in their respective time and order (which ever occurs in any given point in space or time). All is energy anyways, just vibrating at different frequenices within the visible and invisible range of vision, so that some bodies may be more or less visible (or dense) depending on their condition and perhaps the ability of the person themselves to affect or manipulate (for instance Jesus materializing and dematerializing).

The resurrection body will be according to the natural environment or need in which the soul finds itself, as "God gives every soul a body accordingly". Souls staying in the spirit-world will have their resonant spirit bodies appropriate to those domains, while any soul rising in a more physical world will have bodies appropriate for their habitation. In as much as a soul has a 'body' of any kind, of course we refer to the resurrection as 'bodily', as those bodies will be 'suited' to dwell in the realm that they are raised up to inhabit. We can speculate over the 'metaphysics' of resurrection bodies, but it will remain speculation.

View attachment 25064

Yes, but the Father has no bodily shape or form; the heavens and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain Him, (Deut 10:14, 1 Kgs 8:27, 2 Chr 2:6, 2 Chr 6:18), so imagine a white dove descending from the heavens or the sky in somatikos-bodily form: the dove itself has a bodily shape or form, (somatiko, Luke 3:22, and likewise this terminology is used of Messiah in Col 2:9). In the mind, (singular), of the authors, (plural), there is no way they thought of Messiah as being equal to the Father: for they knew the scripture, and the Father is non-corporeal Spirit. The Father has no shape or form whatsoever because any shape or form of His own self would by definition contain Him. The dove is not equal to the sky as it descends because it descends within the confines of its own body with the backdrop of the heavens or sky around it. Likewise the sky itself containing the dove is still not equal to the Father; for all things of creation are within the Father who is over and above all. We breathe His air, we swim in His waters, we fly in airplanes through the midst of His sky; and yet He is still greater than all these things. Look at your image file and imagine a dove just the same; either way it is a bodily shape or form and cannot contain the Father, although the Father may be in and through the form, (being greater than the form and being all in all in all things holy). If Messiah is even remotely likened to a phantasma traversing across the water then the author of that text in no way thinks of him as "equal to the Father" because he writes that they saw some sort of a bodily form, (of light), coming toward them over-upon the water. Messiah is the embodiment of the Word of the Father and the Word of the Father can be, and is, localized anywhere and everywhere for different and varying purposes. In essence Messiah is the perfect image-stamp of the Father; His perfect vessel; His physical extension into the world, His right arm of salvation, whom we are to emulate and become by way of his Testimony which he received from the heavens and apportioned to his disciples, apostles, and brethren. By that very Testimony, (if we hear, observe, and maintain it), Messiah Yeshua is the Mediator between the Father and His people.

 

[jamie]

And the verse in Isaiah 9:6 doesn't mean that Jesus is God!

Well, of course not. Who in the world would think that a father would produce a son of his own kind? If your biological father was human why would anyone expect you to also be human? That just makes no sense. You could be anything but human, right?

Just because humans are in the image and likeness of God that surely doesn't make us anything like God does it?

 

[keypurr]

Well, of course not. Who in the world would think that a father would produce a son of his own kind? If your biological father was human why would anyone expect you to also be human? That just makes no sense. You could be anything but human, right?

Just because humans are in the image and likeness of God that surely doesn't make us anything like God does it?

ME, Heb 1:3, Col 1:15

God DID produce his own kind and it was not human, it is a spirit.

 

[jamie]

God DID produce his own kind and it was not human, it is a spirit.

Who impregnated Mary?

 

[keypurr]

Who impregnated Mary?

Different subject but God used the Holy Spirit to do that.

Jesus is NOT the EXPRESS IMAGE of the Father.
Jesus is the body prepared to HOLD the express image of the Father.

 

[jamie]

Different subject but God used the Holy Spirit to do that.

Jesus is NOT the EXPRESS IMAGE of the Father.
Jesus is the body prepared to HOLD the express image of the Father

According to Paul who was the firstborn of the dead?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No Jerry, the NIV is wrong.

God was and now is in Christ--

2Co 5:19 To wit,G5613 thatG3754 GodG2316 wasG2258 inG1722 Christ,G5547 reconcilingG2644 the worldG2889 unto himself,G1438 notG3361 imputingG3049 theirG846 trespassesG3900 unto them;G846 andG2532 hath committedG5087 untoG1722 usG2254 theG3588 wordG3056 of reconciliation.G2643

How will you change this verse--

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

and these--

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Why are you being so dishonest with scripture Jerry.

LA

Let this be a warning to anyone who would dare try to have a discussion with the person named "Lazy afternoon." If you have a disagreement with that person be prepared to have your character assassinated. I will no longer discuss anything with that person.

You have been assassinating yourself by ignoring plain texts proving your theories to be wrong.

Show a bit of backbone and face the facts.

Jesus Christ is not God Almighty according to Rev.chs 4 and 5

and according to--

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

LA

 

[meshak]

thank you for your input LA. You are blessing.

 

[keypurr]

According to Paul who was the firstborn of the dead?

Jesus, the flesh son of God.

Who do you see as the first born of all creation/creatures?
It was not Jesus.

The express image of God is a spirit not a man.


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[Jerry Shugart]

The dove is not equal to the sky as it descends because it descends within the confines of its own body with the backdrop of the heavens or sky around it. Likewise the sky itself containing the dove is still not equal to the Father; for all things of creation are within the Father who is over and above all.

Could you answer a question for me concerning the things of creation of which you speak?

The Apostle Paul makes it plain that all created things were created by the Lord Jesus (Col.1:16). That being true, if He is a created being then how can we possibly believe that He created Himself?

 

[jamie]

Jesus, the flesh son of God.

What does the Greek "Iesous" mean in English?

Luke 2:10-11 Then the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

Do we agree that Christ was born of Mary?

 

[keypurr]

What does the Greek "Iesous" mean in English?

Luke 2:10-11 Then the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

Do we agree that Christ was born of Mary?

We agree that Jesus was born to Mary.

Christ, which means anointed, is a spirit that was at the creation. Jesus became the Christ when he was anointed with Christ.

The book of Luke was written many years after the birth and one must consider that the Greek to English is sometimes flawed. The spirit Christ had the fullness of his creator, he did not need to grow in wisdom. Christ came to Jesus as a Dove and was led into the wilderness for forty days to be tempted by Satan.

Acts 10:38 tells us that Jesus received the Holy Spirit AND POWER at his anointing. Proof that is when he became the Christ. I had discussed this many times with BR also. Christ was IN Jesus, Christ spoke and acted through Jesus. Jesus died, as the Lamb of God, pure sinless. But Christ lives on. Christ took the form of man, in other words, he was a spirit who gave up a very high position in heaven to please his God and come to us to dwell as a man.


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[jamie]

Jesus became the Christ when he was anointed with Christ.

For what purpose? Christ didn't do anything, it was the Father who did the works through Jesus of Nazareth who was born of Mary.

Your theory makes the Christ totally superflous. That's a bad deal and scripture does not support your theory.

Why don't we work together to develop a new theory for you? Are you in?