Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah

[daqq]

No.

Jesus is the express image of the invisible God.

He is a man as the Bible says He is.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

LA

Can you show us where the scripture says, "Jesus is the Word of God made flesh" ???

I do not find that statement anywhere so it is rather your interpretation of what you believe it should say. Keypurr is right, (and Hi Keypurr! ), because as Paul says, "All flesh is not the same flesh", (and what follows that statement in the context proves what follows herein). And how many times must these same things be addressed to the same people before they will open their spiritual eyes? You say in the same breath, "Jesus is a man", and yet, "Jesus is the Word of God made flesh", but they cannot both be true because the Spirit of the Holy One descended in somatiko-corporeal-bodily form like a Dove at the immersion of the man Yeshua, (Luke 3:22). You have a corporeal Jesus, a corporeal Word, and a corporeal Holy Spirit, (if indeed you believe that should be the rendering of Luke 3:22, but it is not likely "Holy Spirit, but rather "the Spirit of the Holy One").

 

[keypurr]

According to Paul the man Jesus was in the Spirit from birth.

Why would he need another Spirit if he was already in the Spirit?

That just makes no sense to me.

Consider that a man did not lay the foundation of the Universe. Every person alive has a spirit in him. Jesus had two. The express image was one of them.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[daqq]

According to Paul the man Jesus was in the Spirit from birth.

Why would he need another Spirit if he was already in the Spirit?

That just makes no sense to me.

Please make sense in your theology of the following statement:

Luke 3:22 ASV
22 and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily [G4984 σωματικω] form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son: in thee I am well pleased.

G4984 σωματικός somatikos (sō-ma-tiy-kos') adj.
corporeal or physical.
[from G4983]
KJV: bodily

Does your theology account for a CORPOREAL-PHYSICAL HOLY SPIRIT? If you cannot address this apparent problem with mainstream theology in your own brand of theology then you need to answer this before you can claim yourself to be making any sense of these things whatsoever. Please do not do like everyone else and just ignore this glaring and blatant error in mainstream dogma because you are only hurting yourself and all those who believe the things you say out of ignorance, (and I do not mean ignorance like stupid but the ignoring of what the text says right in front of your eyes).

 

[jamie]

Every person alive has a spirit in him. Jesus had two. The express image was one of them.

From birth Jesus had a human spirit and he had the Spirit of the Father in him who did the works.

Jesus had no need for a third spirit.

According to Paul Jesus was not in the flesh but in the Spirit from birth.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

The Spirit of God dwelt in Jesus from his birth.

It was the Spirit of God who resurrected Jesus: "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." (Romans 8:11)

No other Spirit was needed. Jesus of Nazareth was complete when he was born of Mary.

Jesus said, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" (Revelation 3:19). Years ago I prayed that if Jesus loves you as a brother he would work with you.

The time has come to see if he does.

 

[jamie]

Please make sense in your theology of the following statement:

Luke 3:22 ASV
22 and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily [G4984 σωματικω] form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son: in thee I am well pleased.

The Spirit manifested himself in the bodily form of a dove to anoint Jesus as his Anointed One for his ministry as an apostle with regard to the kingdom of God.

The holy Spirit was not available to others while Jesus was human.

On the Last Day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:37-39)​

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No.

Jesus is the express image of the invisible God.

He is a man as the Bible says He is.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

LA

Blasphemy!

Unbeliever Raven.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No.

Jesus is the express image of the invisible God.

He is a man as the Bible says He is.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

LA

Can you show us where the scripture says, "Jesus is the Word of God made flesh" ???

I do not find that statement anywhere so it is rather your interpretation of what you believe it should say.

Is the Word, not the Word of God?

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

LA

 

[daqq]

The Spirit manifested himself in the bodily form of a dove to anoint Jesus as his Anointed One for his ministry as an apostle with regard to the kingdom of God.

The holy Spirit was not available to others while Jesus was human.

On the Last Day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:37-39)
​

Your postulation is untrue because the word "given", (which I highlighted in bold red italics), appears nowhere in any Greek text but has rather been inserted into the text by your favorite translators. You therefore do not understand what you are reading in that text because it speaks not of a Spirit as entity but rather speaks of the Testimony of Yeshua, which is Spirit, (according to his own Testimony in John 6:62-63), and which Testimony is likewise the Spirit of Grace, (and the blood of our Covenant, Hebrews 10:29), for Testimony is SPIRIT, and the Testimony of Yeshua was "not yet" in the John passage because it was not yet complete until the Master says, at Golgotha, "IT IS FINISHED!"

John 7:39 YLT (Young's Literal Bible Translation)
39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The Holy Spirit was not yet because Yeshua was not yet glorified. And Yeshua was "glorified", (meaning exalted or lifted up in this sense), when he was lifted up at Golgotha on the stake, even as he says: as Moshe lifted up the Seraph, on a staff or pole, in the desert wilderness. You are therefore confusing Testimony-Spirit with the Name found in Genesis 1:2 and Matthew 3:16, which Name is Ruach Elohim, (anarthrous, no article, and therefore much more likely a personal pronoun, a name, (denoting entity)).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Please make sense in your theology of the following statement:

Luke 3:22 ASV
22 and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily [G4984 σωματικω] form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son: in thee I am well pleased.

G4984 σωματικός somatikos (sō-ma-tiy-kos') adj.
corporeal or physical.
[from G4983]
KJV: bodily

Does your theology account for a CORPOREAL-PHYSICAL HOLY SPIRIT? If you cannot address this apparent problem with mainstream theology in your own brand of theology then you need to answer this before you can claim yourself to be making any sense of these things whatsoever. Please do not do like everyone else and just ignore this glaring and blatant error in mainstream dogma because you are only hurting yourself and all those who believe the things you say out of ignorance, (and I do not mean ignorance like stupid but the ignoring of what the text says right in front of your eyes).

Yes, The Father descended by His Holy Spirit to walk in and with His prepared by the Word of God son, after His baptism by John.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

which was not permanent until His resurrection from the dead.

LA

 

[daqq]

Is the Word, not the Word of God?

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

LA

Yes, The Father descended by His Holy Spirit to walk in and with His prepared by the Word of God son, after His baptism by John.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

which was not permanent until His resurrection from the dead.

LA

Proverbs 30:4-5
4 Who has ascended up into the heavens and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, and what is the Name of His Son, if you know?
5 Every Emrat-(Memra)-Word of Eloah is tried: He is a magen-shield unto them that take refuge in Him.

And no one has ascended up into the heavens if not the one from the heavens has descended:
the Son of man, (John 3:13).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Proverbs 30:4-5
4 Who has ascended up into the heavens and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, and what is the Name of His Son, if you know?
5 Every Emrat-(Memra)-Word of Eloah is tried: He is a magen-shield unto them that take refuge in Him.

And no one has ascended up into the heavens if not the one from the heavens has descended:
the Son of man, (John 3:13).

So you think the Son of man came from Heaven, and not born of Mary and raised up on earth by God who came from Heaven.

Difficult verses are understood by the multitude of simple ones.

You wish to distort the verses to suit your own opinion.

LA

 

[daqq]

So you think the Son of man came from Heaven, and not born of Mary and raised up on earth by God who came from Heaven.

Difficult verses are understood by the multitude of simple ones.

You wish to distort the verses to suit your own opinion.

LA

You too: Where is your explanation of somatiko in Luke 3:22 according to your theology and doctrine? Can you not explain it in your theology? Why do you ignore what the scripture clearly says and act like it does not say what it says while continuing to lambast others who disagree with your errors? We know what somatikos means by the way in which it is used in the scripture and amazingly, (in regards to your comments about literal physical virgin births), this passage kills more than one bird with a single stone:

1 Timothy 4:6-8 KJV
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily [G4984 σωματικός somatikos] exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

:sheep:

 

[freelight]

Truth...........

Truth...........

Yes, but the Father has no bodily shape or form; the heavens and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain Him, (Deut 10:14, 1 Kgs 8:27, 2 Chr 2:6, 2 Chr 6:18), so imagine a white dove descending from the heavens or the sky in somatikos-bodily form: the dove itself has a bodily shape or form, (somatiko, Luke 3:22, and likewise this terminology is used of Messiah in Col 2:9). In the mind, (singular), of the authors, (plural), there is no way they thought of Messiah as being equal to the Father: for they knew the scripture, and the Father is non-corporeal Spirit. The Father has no shape or form whatsoever because any shape or form of His own self would by definition contain Him. The dove is not equal to the sky as it descends because it descends within the confines of its own body with the backdrop of the heavens or sky around it. Likewise the sky itself containing the dove is still not equal to the Father; for all things of creation are within the Father who is over and above all. We breathe His air, we swim in His waters, we fly in airplanes through the midst of His sky; and yet He is still greater than all these things. Look at your image file and imagine a dove just the same; either way it is a bodily shape or form and cannot contain the Father, although the Father may be in and through the form, (being greater than the form and being all in all in all things holy). If Messiah is even remotely likened to a phantasma traversing across the water then the author of that text in no way thinks of him as "equal to the Father" because he writes that they saw some sort of a bodily form, (of light), coming toward them over-upon the water. Messiah is the embodiment of the Word of the Father and the Word of the Father can be, and is, localized anywhere and everywhere for different and varying purposes. In essence Messiah is the perfect image-stamp of the Father; His perfect vessel; His physical extension into the world, His right arm of salvation, whom we are to emulate and become by way of his Testimony which he received from the heavens and apportioned to his disciples, apostles, and brethren. By that very Testimony, (if we hear, observe, and maintain it), Messiah Yeshua is the Mediator between the Father and His people.

:thumb:


Selah

 

[daqq]

:thumb:


Selah

You have impeccable timing my friend, (for that culminates what was posted on this page).

 

[marhig]

You too: Where is your explanation of somatiko in Luke 3:22 according to your theology and doctrine? Can you not explain it in your theology? Why do you ignore what the scripture clearly says and act like it does not say what it says while continuing to lambast others who disagree with your errors? We know what somatikos means by the way in which it is used in the scripture and amazingly, (in regards to your comments about literal physical virgin births), this passage kills more than one bird with a single stone:

1 Timothy 4:6-8 KJV
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily [G4984 σωματικός somatikos] exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

:sheep:

Hi daqq, I believe the Jesus always had Gods spirit, as it says he did in the Bible. And it also says that he waxed strong in spirit as a child. But I believe that he wasn't ready until he preached, that was his time. And God gave him the power of the spirit to do so. But it says in the Bible that Jesus always had the spirit of God with him.

Luke 2

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

And it says at the very end of Luke 2

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Wisdom only comes from God, so God must have been with Jesus from a child.

How do you believe it to be? Thanks

 

[marhig]

:thumb:


Selah

Sorry I don't know where that post is to comment on it directly, but that was a good post by daqq and what people don't realise it's that God isn't confined to a fleshly body, he is spirit and the spirit is free.

As daqq said he is in and through us, but he is free. Jesus describes the spirit as like the wind, which is the perfect analogy, you can't see him with the natural eyes, but he keeps us alive in God when we breathe him in. He cleans and freshens and we don't know where he comes from or where he goes, because he's free. Unlike us who are bound in flesh. God isn't flesh like us, he is spirit and he is free from flesh and so is Christ.

 

[daqq]

You too: Where is your explanation of somatiko in Luke 3:22 according to your theology and doctrine? Can you not explain it in your theology? Why do you ignore what the scripture clearly says and act like it does not say what it says while continuing to lambast others who disagree with your errors? We know what somatikos means by the way in which it is used in the scripture and amazingly, (in regards to your comments about literal physical virgin births), this passage kills more than one bird with a single stone:

1 Timothy 4:6-8 KJV
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily [G4984 σωματικός somatikos] exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

:sheep:

Hi daqq, I believe the Jesus always had Gods spirit, as it says he did in the Bible. And it also says that he waxed strong in spirit as a child. But I believe that he wasn't ready until he preached, that was his time. And God gave him the power of the spirit to do so. But it says in the Bible that Jesus always had the spirit of God with him.

Luke 2

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

And it says at the very end of Luke 2

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Wisdom only comes from God, so God must have been with Jesus from a child.

How do you believe it to be? Thanks

The infancy narratives are good and full of teaching; but that teaching is not brought through in the way in which the Greek texts have been rendered in the carnal sense that they are, (for instance all the words used for birthing are words which concern plant life reproduction because Messiah is the Tsemach-Branch). The allegorical infancy narratives are explained in the parables, idioms, axiomatic statements, sayings, and teachings of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts. The elohim seed of Malachi 2:15 is the same seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15 and the same elohim seed is the Seed of the Word which must be planted in the soil of your heart. In this manner Messiah is formed in us. The virgin birth allegories are therefore good but they are the milk of the Word for babes in Messiah. The meat of the Word is the Dove who descended in bodily form at the immersion of Yeshua and abode-remained with-upon-within him throughout his physical ministry and Golgotha. One may likewise find the same symbolism between the quail and Shiloh, (Messiah), in the Torah.

Shiloh - Genesis 49:10

H7886 שִׁילֹה Shiyloh (shee-lo') n/p.
1. tranquil.
2. Shiloh, an epithet of the Messiah.
[from H7951]
KJV: Shiloh.

H7951 שָׁלָה shalah (shaw-law') v.
שָׁלַו shalav (shaw-lav') [Job 3:26]
to be tranquil, i.e. secure or successful.
[a primitive root]
KJV: be happy, prosper, be in safety.

Quail - Exodus 16:13 - Numbers 11:31-35 - Psalm 105:40

H7958 שְׂלָו slav (sel-awv') n-f.
שְׂלָיו slayv (sel-awv')
the quail collectively (as slow in flight from its weight).
[by orthographical variation from H7951 through the idea of sluggishness]
KJV: quails.

Psalm 105:40
40 They asked, and He brought quails, and satisfied them with bread of the heavens.

 

[marhig]

The infancy narratives are good and full of teaching; but that teaching is not brought through in the way in which the Greek texts have been rendered in the carnal sense that they are, (for instance all the words used for birthing are words which concern plant life reproduction because Messiah is the Tsemach-Branch). The allegorical infancy narratives are explained in the parables, idioms, axiomatic statements, sayings, and teachings of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts. The elohim seed of Malachi 2:15 is the same seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15 and the same elohim seed is the Seed of the Word which must be planted in the soil of your heart. In this manner Messiah is formed in us. The virgin birth allegories are therefore good but they are the milk of the Word for babes in Messiah. The meat of the Word is the Dove who descended in bodily form at the immersion of Yeshua and abode-remained with-upon-within him throughout his physical ministry and Golgotha. One may likewise find the same symbolism between the quail and Shiloh, (Messiah), in the Torah.

Shiloh - Genesis 49:10

H7886 שִׁילֹה Shiyloh (shee-lo') n/p.
1. tranquil.
2. Shiloh, an epithet of the Messiah.
[from H7951]
KJV: Shiloh.

H7951 שָׁלָה shalah (shaw-law') v.
שָׁלַו shalav (shaw-lav') [Job 3:26]
to be tranquil, i.e. secure or successful.
[a primitive root]
KJV: be happy, prosper, be in safety.

Quail - Exodus 16:13 - Numbers 11:31-35 - Psalm 105:40

H7958 שְׂלָו slav (sel-awv') n-f.
שְׂלָיו slayv (sel-awv')
the quail collectively (as slow in flight from its weight).
[by orthographical variation from H7951 through the idea of sluggishness]
KJV: quails.

Psalm 105:40
40 They asked, and He brought quails, and satisfied them with bread of the heavens.

Yes I agree with the soil, as we are the earth, but I truly believe that Jesus had the spirit with him from a child, as he had wisdom to speak the things of God at 12 years old.

I don't believe that it is the water Baptism that brought the spirit either, I believe that John knew Jesus was the Christ because the spirit remained upon him. He saw God in Christ and he saw that he was strong, because John was of the spirit and not the flesh.

I believe that the virgin is a pure heart, but I can only know what God has given me to know, anymore than that is for me to receive if and when I'm ready, and if I do Gods will.

But God is amazing, and I'm truly blessed to know him!

 

[Right Divider]

Were his kinsmen Christians?

You really must get yourself a Bible jamie.

Rom 9:3-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(9:3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (9:4) Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;
​

THAT is who Paul's kinsmen are.

 

[keypurr]

From birth Jesus had a human spirit and he had the Spirit of the Father in him who did the works.

Jesus had no need for a third spirit.

According to Paul Jesus was not in the flesh but in the Spirit from birth.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

The Spirit of God dwelt in Jesus from his birth.

It was the Spirit of God who resurrected Jesus: "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." (Romans 8:11)

No other Spirit was needed. Jesus of Nazareth was complete when he was born of Mary.

Jesus said, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" (Revelation 3:19). Years ago I prayed that if Jesus loves you as a brother he would work with you.

The time has come to see if he does.

Christ is the spirit of the Father. Show me where he had it at his birth. And then tell me why he needed the Dove.

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