Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah

[keypurr]

Both side are in a assumption based theory, seeing record shows there is no evidence that Jesus even existed, the message though has been relevant since time began through each cultural belief system, the mystery of Christ within predated the Christian era that Paul declared was a new mystery never before revealed is a lie, the Christian dogma gleaned much of its dogma from pagan and Egyptian beliefs.

David, Solomon, Abraham, Jesus, the twelve, Paul, are believed in by faith not historic fact, these are states on being that exist today not secular history or time that the spiritual kingdom Luke 17:20-21, isn't concerned with..

Zeke, I understand what faith and I have an abundance of it. No one can prove the scriptures are from God to a person who needs what you seem to need. My line of reason was crossed many years ago. I have no doubts about God and the man he sent. I don't need positive proof of his existence. I understand folks like yourself that do for there was a time when I had serious questions about God. But mankind will never know all about God's power and wisdom.

Your choice friend, draw your own line of reason and see if you can cross it.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[keypurr]

What you fail to understand is that the Christian's faith is not a blind faith but one which assures the believer that what is written in the Bible is true. That is why Christian faith is described as the EVIDENCE of things not seen (Heb.11:1).

It is ridiculous to argue that the God who made us is incapable of giving us a revelation which we can know came from Him.

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

The Christian is not in doubt because the LORD God has given us an understanding of these things.

Jerry I think he questions if the Bible is God's word. I went through that when I was about twenty. It was the book of Daniel that I built my faith on. Zeke brings back memories of my days in his boat.

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[Squeaky]

Jerry I think he questions if the Bible is God's word. I went through that when I was about twenty. It was the book of Daniel that I built my faith on. Zeke brings back memories of my days in his boat.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

I said
I had a person tell me one time that because God was in Jesus that made Jesus God. And because God can be in us it will make us God. Nutty huh!

2 Cor 5:18-19
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

Phil 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(NKJ)

 

[KingdomRose]

Both Psalms 110 and Isaiah 61 can be explained by what is said here about the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

The Lord Jesus was made in the likeness of man and in doing so he no longer possessed the glory which He had with the Father before the world was:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (Jn.17:15).​

So let us look at these verses which you think proves that the Lord Jesus is not God:

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath" (Ps.110:1-5).​

Here we can see that the Lord Jesus is doing the will of Jehovah at a time when the Lord Jesus "made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men."

So there is nothing in Psalm 110 which even hints that the Lord Jesus is not God.

Now let us look at this passage:

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" (Isa.61:1-2).​

Again, the Lord Jesus is doing the will of God when made in the likeness of man. At that time He took on the form of a servant. And since He was made in the form of a man in all things (Heb.2:17) then He obviously had a God just as all men have a God.



That proves that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah because it is the Lord Jesus who comes to execute judgment:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-34,41).​

You have stated that Jesus and Jehovah (the Father) are one and the same. Yet you say that Jesus was WITH the Father before the world was (John 17:15). Aren't you seriously contradicting yourself?

The question for this particular thread is not "is Jesus God?" It is "are Jesus and Jehovah the same person?" You did not explain how Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61 support your statement that Jesus and Jehovah are the same.

 

[marhig]

Here we see that the LORD Jehovah is God Almighty:

"And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them" (Ex.6:203).​

The following verses reveal that Jesus Christ is the Alpha and the Omega and the beginning and the ending. He is also the Almighty:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:7-8).​

We can know that this is speaking of the Lord Jesus because common sense dictates that there can be only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega" and the "beginning and the ending," and that One is Jehovah, the Almighty God. And here we can see the Lord Jesus describing Himself that way:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is said to be coming quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:12-13).​

There can be no doubt that since there can only be ONE "Alpha and Omega" then the Lord Jesus is the Almighty God, Jehovah.

How can you not see that God is in Christ and he is speaking the word of God, what God gives him he speaks? And how can Jesus be the father if the father sent him?

Matthew 12

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Matthew 10

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Jesus didn't say that he was the father and clearly shows right through the new testament that he isn't the father and that he is under subjection to God, he is even set at the right hand of God, exhalted by God. And he was anointed by God too. How can he be God and the father when God is his God and father?

And The father is in Jesus, but he isn't the father. And Jesus says that the father is his father too, so how can he be his own father?

John 14

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son

John 14

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

You make no sense by saying Jesus is the father, no he isn't as it clearly shows in the Bible.

 

[marhig]

The Lord Jesus is the co-creator with the two others who make up the Godhead:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Gen.1:26).​

When we look at the following passage we can know that the Holy Spirit is a member of the Godhead:

"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God" (Acts 5:3-4).​

Peter said that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit and he also said that she lied to God. This affirms the Holy Spirit's deity.

Why do you think that God saying, let's make man in our image, makes Jesus God? Everyone in heaven is in the image of God!

 

[6days]

You have stated that Jesus and Jehovah (the Father) are one and the same. Yet you say that Jesus was WITH the Father before the world was (John 17:15). Aren't you seriously contradicting yourself?

Jesus claimed He and the Father are one. If you use other scripture to try prove that is wrong, then either Sctipture itself is wrong....or you are.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why do you think that God saying, let's make man in our image, makes Jesus God? Everyone in heaven is in the image of God!

I never said that!

Instead, I quoted this verse to show a plurality in the Godhead:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Gen.1:26).​

How do you explain that?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You have stated that Jesus and Jehovah (the Father) are one and the same. Yet you say that Jesus was WITH the Father before the world was (John 17:15). Aren't you seriously contradicting yourself?

The Lord Jesus was WITH the Father before the world in the sense that they were in union with one another. Of course none of you anti-Trinitarians ever address what is said here about the Lord Jesus:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6)​

.

That explains why the Lord Jesus said this:

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (Jn.14:9).​

Explain how the Lord Jesus could say that unless He is indeed the Everlasting Father.

At Isaiah 26:21 Jehovah speaks of himself as coming to execute judgment.

That proves that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah because it is the Lord Jesus who comes to execute judgment:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-34,41).​

 

[marhig]

I never said that!

Instead, I quoted this verse to show a plurality in the Godhead:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Gen.1:26).​

How do you explain that?

I don't understand how you are trying to make that as to mean that Jesus is God and there father? For a start God by saying the word us he's obviously talking to someone else not to himself! So Christ isn't the father.

I'm the image of my mother but it doesn't mean I am her. All in heaven will be in the image of God, because they only speak what is given to them of God and once we receive the holy spirit and do Gods will, we also have an image of God and Christ in and through us. Christ is in the express image of God because he only spoke what God have him and he never allowed sin to enter in and he overcame Satan. So God has exhalted him to the highest in heaven over everything and everyone else at the right hand of God, and everything is done through him.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And how can Jesus be the father if the father sent him?

Simple!

Even though the Lord Jesus was "in the form of God" He made Himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a "Servant":

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

That explains why the Father sent Him.

Jesus didn't say that he was the father and clearly shows right through the new testament that he isn't the father...

Then how do you explain what He said here:

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (Jn.14:9).​

And how do you explain this?:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

And he was anointed by God too. How can he be God and the father when God is his God and father?

Because even though the Lord Jesus was "in the form of God" He made Himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a "Servant":

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

And since He was made in the form of man "in all things" (Heb.2:17) then like all men He had a God.

Now it is your turn to answer a simple question. Jehovah says that He will come out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth (Isa.26:21).

And here we see that it is the Lord Jesus who does that:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-34,41).​

How do you explain that?

"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't understand how you are trying to make that as to mean that Jesus is God and there father? For a start God by saying the word us he's obviously talking to someone else not to himself! So Christ isn't the father.

I am only showing that this verse shows the plurality of God:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Gen.1:26).​

Why does God speak of Himself using a PLURAL pronoun unless more than one Person makes up the Godhead?

 

[Right Divider]

I asked you a question and instead of answering me you ask me a question.

If you can actually give evidence from the Scriptures to support your idea then let us hear it.

Now, where in the Scriptures do we find your idea that a spirit son named "Christ" was joined to a man named "Jesus."

That's not quite accurate of his view. His view is that this "Christ" spirit took over this "Jesus" man. That's why I asked him what happened to the spirit of this "Jesus" man.

 

[Right Divider]

This is what Peter told Cornelius:

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him" (Acts 10:34-35).​

And then we read this in the book of Hebrews:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him" (Heb.11:6).​

Might I add that God is perfectly righteous and perfectly just; therefore He will judge them fairly regardless of what any of us thinks.

 

[Right Divider]

John 14

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

You make no sense by saying Jesus is the father, no he isn't as it clearly shows in the Bible.

I am greater than my children; does that mean that they do not have the same nature as I?

You have a categorical confusion.

 

[Right Divider]

Why do you think that God saying, let's make man in our image, makes Jesus God? Everyone in heaven is in the image of God!

Scripture PLEASE!

 

[jamie]

Scripture PLEASE!

Marhig is wrong, there is nothing in scripture that supports the statement that Satan is in the image of God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That's not quite accurate of his view. His view is that this "Christ" spirit took over this "Jesus" man. That's why I asked him what happened to the spirit of this "Jesus" man.

Thanks! This just goes to prove that Keypurr is able to trick his mind into believing anything, no matter how ridiculous.

 

[Rivers]

If he had the fullness of God why didn't he make his own human body instead of kidnapping a body belonging to his Father?

That's just wrong.

I think a more reasonable option is to understand that "the fullness of God bodily" (Colossians 2:9) refers to "the church is the fullness" (as in Ephesians 1:22-23). That is why Jesus is called "the head" in the following verse (Colossians 2:10). Jesus can't be the "head" of his own physical body.

 

[Rivers]

Marhig is wrong, there is nothing in scripture that supports the statement that Satan is in the image of God.

Agreed.