The "nature" makes no difference.
Just because you and your children are both "human", nobody regards you all as the same "being" or some kind of "multi-personal being" that shares the same nature.
Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
The "nature" makes no difference.
Just because you and your children are both "human", nobody regards you all as the same "being" or some kind of "multi-personal being" that shares the same nature.
Right Divider
Body part
It was an analogy.
God is a being that has revealed Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is ONE God and THEY are the ONE God.
Zeke
Well-known member
That sending wasn't a singular event, the light that lights all men John 1:9, and that comes from above/skull/temple like a seed lying dormant/hidden in a field 2Chron 22:12 is symbolic/ allegorical about us the true temple of God Acts 17:24 , there was no flesh and blood sacrifice because neither has any inheritance in the invisible Kingdom that the scripture deals with, the body is a temporal phase of the awaking of that seed that falls from heaven asleep/dead in man until the voice of the Divine awakens it within us 1Sam 3:4, Romans 6 isn't about physical death! the context is like Galatians 4:28, being like Isaac isn't achieved by physical death and rebirth, those are symbolic instructions Galatians 4:24 about what takes place in the temple sitting on you're shoulders. The kingdom is always at hand and is an on going departure and arrival of that quickening spirit that awakens the son John 13:36.
keypurr
Well-known member
I am one with the Father also.
Do you understand my words?
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keypurr
Well-known member
The Father and his express image Jerry. The spirit so was involved at the creation.
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keypurr
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus was not born yet. Jesus is a man with the spirit of God in him. That spirit is the express image.
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You were going to provide an Aramaic or Hebraic verse that proves Christ was a created Son of God before he was made mortal.
Can you do it?
Right Divider
Body part
"Express image" is translated from the Greek word: χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer')
Do you know what it means?
HINT: No, you don't.
Provide the verse in any translation
keypurr
Well-known member
Sorry I forgot friend. There is a lot going on in my life at the moment, my oldest daughter is fighting cancer. But hopefully I will look into it.
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look at this passage:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).
The Person who was "made in the likeness of men" was before "in the form of God."
That means that at one time that the Lord Jesus was in the form of God.
The Greek word translated "form"means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
So since the Lord Jesus was in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He appeared to the inhabitants of heaven.
And He couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God. So it should surprise no one when we read this about the Lord Jesus:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are described perfectly here:
"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge" (Ro.10:2).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Are you willing to claim that when people see you they see the Father, Jehovah?:
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (Jn.14:9).
keypurr
Well-known member
How about Hebrews chapter 1 from the Aramaic to English NT.
1. In many ways and many forms Elohim anciently conversed with out fathers by the prophets.
2. But in these latter days, He has conversed with us by His Son whom he as constituted heir of all things, and by whom he made the worlds,
Ok, now we see that God's son was at the creation.
3. who is the splendor of His glory and the exact image of his nature, and upholds all by the power of His Word; and by his Qnoma.
Now we know God is a spirit, Christ told us. So his exact image would also a spirit. Proof that God had a spirit son before they created the Universe.
Lets look at Colossians chapter 1 from the Aramaic to English NT
15. who is the likeness of the invisible Elohim and the first-born of all creatures:
16. and by him was created everything that is in heaven and on earth........
So again we see a spiritual son with God at the creation.
Now look at John 1:
ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT
YOCHANAN (JOHN)
Chapter 1
1. In the beginning was the Miltha. And that Miltha was with Elohim. And Elohim was that Miltha.
2. This was with Elohim in the beginning.
3. Everything existed through his hands……….
Miltha refers to the “Manifestation” of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach. The physical body of Mashiyach is not the Word of YHWH, but his words and actions demonstrate the Will and Word of YHWH, which upholds observance of Torah.
Miltha is the spiritual son of Elohim (God).
Mashiyach refers to Messiah Y’shua (Jesus Christ)
YHWH is the name of the most high God.
Ruach haKodesh is the Holy Spirit.
Elohim is God or a god, it can refer to more than the creator.
It speaks of a spiritual being with God at the creation.
Hope this helped you to see what I have been posting for four years now. Forgive me for not knowing all about the spirit world as I am still learning after seventy years of seeking.
keypurr
Well-known member
I do not have to know RD, I have translators that did that:
Hebrews 1:3
(ASV) who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(BBE) Who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;
(Bishops) Who beyng the bryghtnesse of the glorie, and the very image of his substaunce, vpholdyng all thynges with the worde of his power, hauing by him selfe pourged our sinnes, hath syt on the ryght hande of the maiestie on hye:
(CEV) God's Son has all the brightness of God's own glory and is like him in every way. By his own mighty word, he holds the universe together. After the Son had washed away our sins, he sat down at the right side of the glorious God in heaven.
(DRB) Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high:
(ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(Geneva) Who being the brightnes of the glory, and the ingraued forme of his person, and bearing vp all things by his mightie worde, hath by himselfe purged our sinnes, and sitteth at the right hand of the Maiestie in the highest places,
(GNB) He reflects the brightness of God's glory and is the exact likeness of God's own being, sustaining the universe with his powerful word. After achieving forgiveness for the sins of all human beings, he sat down in heaven at the right side of God, the Supreme Power.
(GW) His Son is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's being. He holds everything together through his powerful words. After he had cleansed people from their sins, he received the highest position, the one next to the Father in heaven.
(ISV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty
(KJV) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NAS77) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NASB) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NET.) The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
(NIrV) The Son is the gleaming brightness of God's glory. He is the exact likeness of God's being. He uses his powerful word to hold all things together. He provided the way for people to be made pure from sin. Then he sat down at the right hand of the King, the Majesty in heaven.
(NIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
(NKJV) who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NRSV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NRSVA) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(TNIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
(YLT) who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might--through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,
When you stop thinking you know it all you may learn something.
keypurr
Well-known member
We agree that the son was a FORM of God, but that dies not make him God.
And it was not Jesus, it was the express image, Christ, a spirit.
Jesus is a man born to god and Mary, he is the sinless body prepared for Christ in Heb 10:5. The flesh and the spirit merged at the baptism of Jesus. That is when God declared that this was his son.
Other translations on Phil 2 might be of interest to you.
keypurr
Well-known member
Not at all, but the spirit of the Father is in me. So I am one with the Father and the Son.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Are you one with the Father and his Son?
If 'morphe' doesn't make Him GOD then neither does 'morphe' make Him 'a servant in the likeness of man'.
Was the Lord Jesus 'a servant in the likeness of man'?
keypurr
Well-known member
Jamie another verse for you consideration:
Php 2:5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form,
Php 2:8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death--even death on a cross.
Php 2:5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form,
Php 2:8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death--even death on a cross.
keypurr
Well-known member
You forget that a "morphe" is a creation, God is not a creation.
Jesus was created to be the body for Christ, the spirit son.