Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah

steko

steko

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Jerry Shugart said:
No, the Holy Spirit is another Person, said to be the Comforter (Jn.14:26). So when Ananias lied to the Comforter he lied to no one but the Comforter. And since Peter said that Ananias told that same lie to God then that means that Peter believed that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit,is God.



That proves that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah because it is the Lord Jesus who comes to execute judgment:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-34,41).​
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Yep and Mat 25:32 is the same judgement as Joe 3:2 and Jehoshaphat means 'YHVH judges'.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.


 
marhig

marhig

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Jerry Shugart said:
If you do not believe that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah then you do not believe in the Trinity. And if you deny that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah then you will die in your sins, as witnessed by what the Lord Jesus said here:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

The Jews who heard the Lord Jesus says those words knew that the Lord was claiming to be God because He said that He was from above. And the Lord said that if they did not believe that then they would die in their sins.

Here is more evidence that the Lord Jesus is from above and that He came down from heaven:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).​

And here:

"What and if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).​

Of course the Lord Jesus came down from heaven and it is obvious that He is the One here in "bold":

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

So when you deny the Trinity you are denying that the Lord Jesus is God and if you continue to do that then you will die in your sins.
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See there you go again, nothing there says that Jesus is God, nothing. And nothing there says that we must believe in the trinity to be saved. You are just trying to fit the scripture into your doctrine and you're making bad job of it too!

I've shown you clearly that the Bible says that God is the God of Jesus. And I can show you many verses that clearly say this. You can't show me one clear verse that says that Jesus is God the son, or that we must believe in a triune God to be saved.

Jesus said that we are to know the only true God who is the father and Jesus Christ whom he has sent and I know both of them.

Jesus never ever calls himself God the son, always the son of God. And if you are one of those who condemn people for not believing in the trinity, then I hope she pray that God forgives you, because nowhere in the Bible does it say that we are to believe in the trinity. But we are to believe in God the father and Jesus Christ whom he has sent, we are to believe his gospel take in the word of God and obey God and do his will. Those who do the will of God are those who belong to Jesus, and not because anyone believes in a trinitarian doctrine that has been thought up by man 300 years after Jesus. It's a false teaching along with the false once saved always saved manmade teaching.

It's up to you what you believe but I'd rather believe the Bible, and if Jesus says that God is his God, and the apostles say that God is the God and father of Jesus Christ, then that's good enough for me and I believe Jesus and the apostles before I'd believe any false church teachings!
 
marhig

marhig

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Jerry Shugart said:
Are you going to argue that there are two Gods, one the Almighty God and another the Mighty God?:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

That verse applies to the Lord Jesus Christ. Of course there is only One God and not two. As I said earlier, the author of Hebrews writes that the Lord Jesus was made like us in all things so He put on the form of man and all men have a God.

And make no mistake about it. The author of Hebrews quoted this verse from the OT and applied it to the Lord Jesus so there is no question that author believed that the Lord Jesus is God:

"Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre" (Ps.45:6).​
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Jesus isn't the father, he's the son so that knocks your understanding of that verse on the head straight away, because by saying that Jesus is God by that verse,( Isaiah 9:6) then you are also saying he is the father, which he absolutely isn't!

Jesus is under subjection to God, this is clear right through the gospels, and because he denied his will and overcame this world and Satan, he has been exalted to the right hand of God. And he is above all of us. But he's not the Almighty God, the Almighty God is the father. Men have made a trinitarian doctrine because they don't understand God. God was in Jesus Christ, and he spoke only what God gave him to speak, look here in John 14

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Jesus is clearly saying that we are to believe his word, but he also said that it's not his word but the fathers that sent him. So this is how Jesus is in anyway God, because he was in the fullness of God being full of the holy spirit and spoke only Gods word. As do the angels who are ministering spirits and as do Gods true people when receive the holy spirit and speak the word of God in truth. Then they are all one, God in Christ, Christ in God, and God and Christ in them dwelling in their hearts, and they will be living by the word of God and doing his will.

Jesus said this in these verses in John 10

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Then this

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Firstly Jesus said that it says in your laws that ye are gods, unto whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken and this is the only way that Jesus was God, is because he had the full power of the holy spirit and was full of the word and he was in the express image of God. And we are not God, but we are bringing the word of God through Christ by revelation from God. So if we truly follow Jesus and live by the spirit, then we are in the image of God and Christ and Christ is made manifest in his people, and we by the spirit bring God and Christ to others.

Also, Jesus also corrected the Jews in the verses above, (in John 10)and he said that the father has sent him, sanctified him and that he is the son of God, so they were ready to stone him by falsely witnessing against him saying he was making himself God, but he never said that, what he really said was that he is the son of God sent and sanctified by the father. Which he is!

By the way, the author of Hebrews also knew that God was the God of Jesus, when he said in Hebrews, 1:9

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
 
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marhig

marhig

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steko said:
Yep and Mat 25:32 is the same judgement as Joe 3:2 and Jehoshaphat means 'YHVH judges'.

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.


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John 7

My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself

This verse (above) not only shows us that the word that Jesus received is of God and not his own, but we also see Jesus saying that those who do Gods will will know whether what he speaks comes from God or if he speaks of himself. So we see that Jesus isn't God

Also

John 12

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 5

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus judged others by the word which he spoke, which came to him from God. And we are judged through Christ Jesus by the word, by the ministry of reconciliation and by his life and on whether we believe and follow and obey his commandments and do the will of God or not.
 
steko

steko

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marhig said:
John 7

My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself

This verse (above) not only shows us that the word that Jesus received is of God and not his own, but we also see Jesus saying that those who do Gods will will know whether what he speaks comes from God or if he speaks of himself. So we see that Jesus isn't God

Also

John 12

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 5

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus judged others by the word which he spoke, which came to him from God. And we are judged through Christ Jesus by the word, by the ministry of reconciliation and by his life and on whether we believe and follow and obey his commandments and do the will of God or not.
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Before the Word which is GOD put on flesh, before Christ took on the likeness of man, He existed and continues to exist as GOD, but in the incarnation gave up His GOD prerogatives and lived as a man in subjection and dependence on the Father.



Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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marhig said:
See there you go again, nothing there says that Jesus is God, nothing. And nothing there says that we must believe in the trinity to be saved. You are just trying to fit the scripture into your doctrine and you're making bad job of it too!
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Why do you keep ignoring the following verse?

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

Why do you continue to close your eyes to the truth concerning the identity of the One who that is of a contrite and humble spirit? Do you think that if you will just ignore it long enough it will just go away? Again, who do you say is being referred to in "bold"?

marhig said:
I've shown you clearly that the Bible says that God is the God of Jesus. And I can show you many verses that clearly say this. You can't show me one clear verse that says that Jesus is God the son, or that we must believe in a triune God to be saved.
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You just IGNORE the verses which demonstrate that the Lord Jesus is God:

"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Mt.1:23).​

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

You can also continue to IGNORE the following words of Thomas spoken to the Lord Jesus:

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:28).​
marhig said:
Jesus said that we are to know the only true God who is the father and Jesus Christ whom he has sent and I know both of them.
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Here Paul is not speaking of the first Person of the Godhead who is included within the pronouns "us" and "our" in the following passage which speaks of Jehovah:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him" (Gen.1:26-27).​

Instead, the Father of which Paul speaks is Jehovah:

"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

The Lord Jesus cannot be excluded from being the Potter since "by Him were all things created" (Col.1:16).

We can also see the following verse which speaks of the Lord Jesus:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father" (Isa.9:6).​

Therefore, the Lord Jesus is the LORD, Jehovah.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
marhig said:
John 12

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
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It will be the Lord Jesus who will be the Judge in the last day, as witnessed by His words here?:

"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (Jn.5:22).​

Then in the very next verse He said this to the Jews:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

To you what He said there is perfectly normal and nothing out of the ordinary. However, if the Lord Jesus is not Jehovah then His words there are as blasphemous as they come!

John 5

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
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Are you denying that the Lord Jesus was previously in the form of God and then He was later made in the form of man and became a Servant?:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

Of course He was doing the will of the Father because He took upon himself the form of a Servant. And you use those facts as an argument to try to prove that the Lord Jesus is not Jehovah.
 
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jamie

jamie

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keypurr said:
I guess he thought one was enough.
Only one was given the power of his fullness.
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If he had the fullness of God why didn't he make his own human body instead of kidnapping a body belonging to his Father?

That's just wrong.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
keypurr said:
What is the content of Hebrews 10:1-5?
Notice that a body was prepared for the son of God.
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Yes, and it was the Lord Jesus who was made like us in all things:

"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest" (Heb.2:17).​

But where is your evidence that a so-called Spirit Son named "Christ" was joined to the man named "Jesus"?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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KingdomRose said:
I look forward to your comments about Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61.
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Both Psalms 110 and Isaiah 61 can be explained by what is said here about the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

The Lord Jesus was made in the likeness of man and in doing so he no longer possessed the glory which He had with the Father before the world was:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (Jn.17:15).​

So let us look at these verses which you think proves that the Lord Jesus is not God:

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath" (Ps.110:1-5).​

Here we can see that the Lord Jesus is doing the will of Jehovah at a time when the Lord Jesus "made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men."

So there is nothing in Psalm 110 which even hints that the Lord Jesus is not God.

Now let us look at this passage:

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" (Isa.61:1-2).​

Again, the Lord Jesus is doing the will of God when made in the likeness of man. At that time He took on the form of a servant. And since He was made in the form of a man in all things (Heb.2:17) then He obviously had a God just as all men have a God.

KingdomRose said:
At Isaiah 26:21 Jehovah speaks of himself as coming to execute judgment.
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That proves that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah because it is the Lord Jesus who comes to execute judgment:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt.25:31-34,41).​
 
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keypurr

keypurr

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Jerry Shugart said:
Yes, and it was the Lord Jesus who was made like us in all things:

"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest" (Heb.2:17).​

But where is your evidence that a so-called Spirit Son named "Christ" was joined to the man named "Jesus"?
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You have been given that Jerry, but you do not wish to accept it. Your choice to remain in the darkness.

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Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
Greek words are of no interest to me, tell me in Aramaic
.

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The New Testament was written in greek my friend.

Aramaic even became the common language spoken in Israel in Jesus' time, and it was likely the language He spoke day by day. Some Aramaic words were even used by the Gospel writers in the New Testament. The New Testament, however, was written in Greek.
 
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