Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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Dartman

Active member
Incorrect.

Psalm 110

A declaration of Yahweh to my Master: Sit at My right hand, until I place (First-Person),Your enemies as Your footstool.
Yes, David just quoted Yahweh.

A7 said:
Yahweh shall send (Third-Person) the rod of Your strength out of Zion to rule in the midst of Your enemies.
Yes, David adds this prophecy to his song, and continues ;

Your people shall have willingness in the day of Your might; in the majesties of holiness; from the womb of the dawn, to You is the dew of Your youth. Yahweh has sworn and will not repent: You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. The Master at Your right hand shatters kings in the day of His anger. He shall judge among the nations; He shall fill with dead bodies; He shall shatter heads over much land. He shall drink out of the torrent on the way; therefore, He shall lift up the head. (Psalm 110.1 - 7)


No conflict at all.

Birds singing, sun shining.... it's a thing of beauty.
 

Omniskeptical

BANNED
Banned
How sad .... you bluster to save face, at the expense of the truth.

What is true? That Hebrew is a pure language, or that Hebrew is an artificial copy of its former glory. adonis, adonai, Adonie are not names for God. Supposedly there were no vowels in Hebrew but the name eeyahuwah aka YHWH has four "consanental" vowels.

There are several dialects or Hebrew too. Aramaic, Post-Aramaic Hebrew, and Modern Aramaic to get you started. Just like there is Koine and Modern Greek.
 

Dartman

Active member
What is true?
True is real.
Truth is reality.

Jehovah/YHVH God is THE Lord ..... Jesus will be David's Lord. Two distinct beings, Jehovah is Jesus' God.


O said:
That Hebrew is a pure language, or that Hebrew is an artificial copy of its former glory. adonis, adonai, Adonie are not names for God. Supposedly there were no vowels in Hebrew but the name eeyahuwah aka YHWH has four "consanental" vowels.

There are several dialects or Hebrew too. Aramaic, Post-Aramaic Hebrew, and Modern Aramaic to get you started. Just like there is Koine and Modern Greek.
How do you think this affects the topic?
 

bibleverse2

New member
Supposedly there were no vowels in Hebrew but the name eeyahuwah aka YHWH has four "consanental" vowels.

Just as the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19) is the three distinct, coexisting Persons (Mark 1:9-11) of God the Father (Galatians 1:3), God the Son (Hebrews 1:8), and God the Holy Spirit (cf. Mark 13:11 and Matthew 10:19-20; Acts 5:3-4), so the Trinity is YHWH the Father, YHWH the Son (YHWH the Word), and YHWH the Holy Spirit. For YHWH is the only God (Isaiah 45:5-6). He has always been and forever will be the only God (Isaiah 43:10b).

And:

John 1:1 ¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . .
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

Right Divider

Body part
You keep repeating this nonsense ..... and NEVER provide as Scripture that clearly, simply and directly states your premise.
Yes I did lying Dartman.... you CUT it out of your "response".

John 1:1 says that THE WORD WAS GOD
and John 1:14 says that this SAME WORD BECAME FLESH....
That's WHO Jesus is, the GOD/MAN

Lie all that you want about what BOTH scripture and I say... the scripture is SO CLEAR that a child can understand it.... but not a lying heretic.
 

Dartman

Active member
Yes I did lying Dartman.... you CUT it out of your "response".

John 1:1 says that THE WORD WAS GOD
and John 1:14 says that this SAME WORD BECAME FLESH....
That's WHO Jesus is, the GOD/MAN

Lie all that you want about what BOTH scripture and I say... the scripture is SO CLEAR that a child can understand it.... but not a lying heretic.
The verses do not mention Jesus once..... so that makes YOU the dishonest one.
The verses DO mention God, and His words.
.
Just check the way John uses LOGOS;
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,...
John 2:22 ...and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
John 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
John 4:41 And many more believed because of his own word;
John 4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life ...
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 7:36 What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come?
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 8:52 .. thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
John 8:55 ... I know him, and keep his saying.
John 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,..
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, .. hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: ...
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, ... if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
John 17:6 ... thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
John 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat
John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
The verses do not mention Jesus once..... so that makes YOU the dishonest one.
The verses DO mention God, and His words.
.
Just check the way John uses LOGOS;
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,...
We don't need to go any further until we tie up this one.

We can just substitute XYZ for 'Word,' and still progress here.

"In the beginning was XYZ, and XYZ was with God, and XYZ was God...And XYZ was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..."

What here is "flesh?"

We believe that "flesh" here is the Lord Jesus Christ. Who /what is "flesh" to you?

We both know from reading, that the author, the Apostle John himself, is not "flesh," because he distinguishes himself from "flesh," in saying that "flesh" "dwelt among us," which means that John himself is included in the group he calls "us," and "flesh" from John 1:14 KJV, is not "us;" "flesh" is not included in "us."
 

Dartman

Active member
We don't need to go any further until we tie up this one.
That would be true, IF you would accept the consistent defintition of logos .... but so far you won't.

I said:
We can just substitute XYZ for 'Word,' and still progress here.
No. There is no need to substitute. THAT'S a "brainwashed" reaction.

The consistent meaning of logos, as demonstrated by ALL of the verses in which John uses the word, works just fine.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,...
John 2:22 ...and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
John 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
John 4:41 And many more believed because of his own word;
John 4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life ...
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 7:36 What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come?
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 8:52 .. thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
John 8:55 ... I know him, and keep his saying.
John 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,..
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, .. hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: ...
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, ... if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
John 17:6 ... thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
John 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat
John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
That would be true, IF you would accept the consistent defintition of logos .... but so far you won't.

No. There is no need to substitute. THAT'S a "brainwashed" reaction.

The consistent meaning of logos, as demonstrated by ALL of the verses in which John uses the word, works just fine.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,...
John 2:22 ...and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
John 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
John 4:41 And many more believed because of his own word;
John 4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life ...
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 7:36 What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come?
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 8:52 .. thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
John 8:55 ... I know him, and keep his saying.
John 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,..
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, .. hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: ...
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, ... if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
John 17:6 ... thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
John 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat
John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
Without any agreement on what the Word is, we can still talk about what is "flesh" in John 1:14 KJV.

What is "flesh" in John 1:14 KJV?
 

Dartman

Active member
Without any agreement on what the Word is, we can still talk about what is "flesh" in John 1:14 KJV.

What is "flesh" in John 1:14 KJV?
The flesh and blood baby boy, that fulfilled God's words. The birth of Jesus fulfilled promises made to Eve, to Enoch, to Abraham, to Judah, and to David.... "by the mouth of all HIS holy prophets since the world began".
 

Right Divider

Body part
The flesh and blood baby boy, that fulfilled God's words. The birth of Jesus fulfilled promises made to Eve, to Enoch, to Abraham, to Judah, and to David.... "by the mouth of all HIS holy prophets since the world began".
More made-up drivel.

The Bible does NOT say that, but it DOES say that the WORD (singular) that WAS GOD (John 1:1) was made flesh (John 1:14) [i.e., God in the flesh].
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
The flesh and blood baby boy, that fulfilled God's words. The birth of Jesus fulfilled promises made to Eve, to Enoch, to Abraham, to Judah, and to David.... "by the mouth of all HIS holy prophets since the world began".
So whatever the Word is, the Word was made "flesh," and that "flesh" is Jesus.

Right?
 

Dartman

Active member
More made-up drivel.

The Bible does NOT say that, but it DOES say that the WORD (singular) that WAS GOD (John 1:1) was made flesh (John 1:14) [i.e., God in the flesh].
More made-up drivel.

The Bible does NOT say that, but it DOES say that God's logos (singular) that WAS GOD (John 1:1) was made flesh (John 1:14) [i.e., God's word/words being fulfilled as a flesh and blood baby boy in Bethlehem]
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,...
John 2:22 ...and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
John 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
John 4:41 And many more believed because of his own word;
John 4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life ...
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 7:36 What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come?
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 8:52 .. thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
John 8:55 ... I know him, and keep his saying.
John 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,..
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, .. hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: ...
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, ... if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
John 17:6 ... thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
John 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat
John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die:
 

Dartman

Active member
So whatever the Word is,
It is obvious what logos means;
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,...
John 2:22 ...and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
John 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
John 4:41 And many more believed because of his own word;
John 4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life ...
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 7:36 What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come?
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 8:52 .. thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
John 8:55 ... I know him, and keep his saying.
John 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,..
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, .. hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: ...
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, ... if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
John 17:6 ... thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
John 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
John 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat
John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die:

Ido said:
the Word was made "flesh," and that "flesh" is Jesus.

Right?
Close, the word was made flesh, and that flesh is Jesus.
 

JudgeRightly

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More made-up drivel.

The Bible does NOT say that, but it DOES say that God's logos (singular) that WAS GOD (John 1:1) was made flesh (John 1:14) [i.e., God's word/words being fulfilled as a flesh and blood baby boy in Bethlehem]

Deceptive, you fraud.

Please show us where it says that the logos "belonged" to God.

You keep claiming "God's logos", yet John 1:1 does not say "In the beginning was God's word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."

It says, in actuality, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and God was the Word.
 

Dartman

Active member
Please show us where it says that the logos "belonged" to God.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word (logos) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

JR said:
You keep claiming "God's logos", yet John 1:1 does not say "In the beginning was God's word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."
Of course it does! The Capital letters weren't added until the KJV, around 1610. Here are some English translations BEFORE KJV;

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

Also notice the WAY less biased "IT" instead of "he"
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Jesus is God

Jesus is God – What does the Bible say about Jesus’ deity?
Does the Bible, which is the earliest and most historically reliable source, actually say Jesus is God? What does it tell us about Jesus and His identity?

Let’s take a brief look at a few of the many passages that clearly and consistently answer that question, straight from the pages of Scripture. We’ll begin by going back an additional 700 years before the life of Christ, to the Old Testament book of Isaiah.

Jesus is God – Prophecies

•Divine Messiah predicted in the Old Testament
Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”1

“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”


• This Messiah would be born a human son, but have a higher nature
Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

This was a radical statement coming from a monotheistic Jewish prophet -- especially calling a human being “Mighty God”; but one that God fulfilled centuries later in Christ.

A couple hundred years later, but still more than half a millennium before Jesus walked the earth, more was predicted about the Messiah’s divine nature
Daniel 7:13-14: “There before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

“Son of Man” was the primary title Jesus used for Himself -- and this passage shows that this was a clear and strong claim of deity. And in Mark, the earliest of the four Gospels, He also included the unmistakable phrase, “coming on the clouds of heaven” and applied it to Himself (Mark 14:62). His listeners got the point, refused to believe it, and added it to their reasons to try to kill Him.


Jesus is God – His Earthly Ministry

•The baby Jesus worshiped by the Magi
Matthew 2:11: “On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.”

Along with being led to the site where Jesus was born, these Magi were apparently informed by God about Jesus’ divine identity, and so they responded appropriately by worshiping Him.


• Jesus accepted worship from His disciples
Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”

In a Jewish culture, only the one true God can be worshiped; their actions show that they acknowledged Jesus as being divine. And Jesus didn’t correct them or say, “Don’t you realize that I’m just a mortal prophet? Stop worshiping me!” Rather, He accepted their worship, knowing He really was God in human flesh.


• Jesus’ claim about Himself
John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”

This is a powerful double claim from Jesus: first, that He pre-existed His human birth and was actually alive and present (as God) before Abraham; second, that His title was “I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14. His listeners again got the point, and picked up stones to execute Him!


• Another of Jesus’ claims of deity
John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”

It couldn’t be clearer than it is here: Jesus’ highly educated listeners understood His claim of deity. They only had two possible responses: to humble themselves and bow before Him as the Magi and the disciples had done earlier, or reject His claim and judge Him as a blasphemer. Unfortunately they chose the latter option. But notice that Jesus doesn’t argue with their accusation, because it was accurate. He really was claiming to be God!

Thomas’ response to the resurrected Jesus
John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"

This disciple realized, because of Jesus’ resurrection, who Jesus really was -- and humbly worshiped Him and declared His true identity: “My Lord and my God!” Jesus not only accepts this declaration, but blesses all of the disciples -- and all of us today -- who come to the same realization and place of humble worship.

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The above article is just the tip of the iceberg. When you read and re-read and re-read the New Testament: Jesus' Deity jumps out at you from every direction.
 

Apple7

New member
The term "Hand" is in there because it is idiomatic English. Not because it appears in the Hebrew. If you want to see the word for "Hand" in the Bible, go to one of your own examples: Ezekiel 3:22

The terms are synonymous with each other.
 
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