Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[Apple7]

Well, I'm glad that you see the difference between adonee and adonai. We're making some progress here.

I'm glad to see that you have no denial of The Son being divine.

 

[Apple7]

Of course they are! And, they shoot down each of your points.
So .... you can't refute even one!

I'm not surprised.

You are at a SEVERE disadvantage since you haven't got a single text that actually states your theory.

You even dare to quote Trinitarian English renderings, when you deny The Trinity.

No one can be this stupid on their own.

You suffer from 2 Cor 4.

 

[JudgeRightly]

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word (logos) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

So you think every time "logos" is used, its the same "logos" as in John 1:1?

That's called equivocation.

Of course it does! :blabla:

Talk about going off on a tangent...

Slower:

You keep claiming "God's logos", yet John 1:1 does not say "In the beginning was God's word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."

It says, in actuality, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and God was the Word.

 

[7djengo7]

You hid this post from him, so he couldn't respond. The box was a reaction to your gibberish. Then he uses weak grammar to explain how the Good Samaritan, and idolater was still good. You don't understand the concept of idolatry.

I hid no post from anyone, so you just lied about me. But, anyone who would choose the name "Omniskeptical" to represent himself/herself is, of course, not going to have the slightest twinge of conscience when he/she has acted immorally.

 

[7djengo7]

Right Divider wrote:

Yes I did lying Dartman.... you CUT it out of your "response".

John 1:1 says that THE WORD WAS GOD and John 1:14 says that this SAME WORD BECAME FLESH.... That's WHO Jesus is, the GOD/MAN

Lie all that you want about what BOTH scripture and I say... the scripture is SO CLEAR that a child can understand it.... but not a lying heretic.

Dartman reacted to that by, out of one side of his mouth, saying:

The verses do not mention Jesus once..... so that makes YOU the dishonest one.
The verses DO mention God, and His words.

Now, here, out of the other side of his mouth, Dartman says:

The flesh and blood baby boy, that fulfilled God's words. The birth of Jesus fulfilled promises made to Eve, to Enoch, to Abraham, to Judah, and to David.... "by the mouth of all HIS holy prophets since the world began".

Dartman had just got done saying that John 1:14 does "not mention Jesus once", and, after that, he contradicts what he had said, telling us that John 1:14 DOES mention Jesus, after all.

 

[Dartman]

You even dare to quote Trinitarian English renderings, when you deny The Trinity.

I notice you are shying away from providing any Scriptures.
We know why.
You've got exactly zero.

No one can be this stupid on their own.

So, you have help??

 

[way 2 go]

Of course he is, his God GAVE the commandments to him..... so DUH!!! They ARE commandments Jesus spoke!
[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Jesus here is saying " his commandment"
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."

Jesus here is saying " my commandments "
Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.




Jesus here is saying " my commandments "

you have 2 choices

A. God told Jesus to say " my commandments "and Jesus is God so when he says " my commandments " Jesus speaks the truth

B. God told Jesus to say " my commandments "and if Jesus is not God then Jesus was told to lie

the truth is A. Jesus is God

 

[way 2 go]

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word (logos) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

So you think every time "logos" is used, its the same "logos" as in John 1:1?

dart has illegitimate totality transfer of "logos"

the word is him , Jesus . Dart ignores this fact too.

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

 

[Dartman]

So you think every time "logos" is used, its the same "logos" as in John 1:1?

Yes. It always means "something spoken, or written.

That's called equivocation.

No, it's called exegesis. The reason lexicons/dictionaries exist is to aid with consistent definitions for words. In the case of John' gospel, the usage of logos is SO BLATANT that a fictional subdivision of the book was invented .... specifically to avoid the obvious truth. The theory that John 1 is separate from the rest of John's gospel, was created specifically because John's usage of logos is clear.

You keep claiming "God's logos", yet John 1:1 does not say "In the beginning was God's word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."

Of course it does!! That's what logos means!!

It says, in actuality, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and God was the Word.

Nope, that's ANOTHER example of just how desperate trinitarian/oneness proponents are! This invented capitalization of the word is ABSOLUTELY not in the manuscripts. In fact lower case letters didn't begin being used until LONG after the NT was written.
THEMANUSCRIPTSDIDNTEVENHAVEPUNCTUATIONORSPACESBETWEENTHEWORDS.

Even the early English translations didn't capitalize "word";

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Nor does our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

 

[7djengo7]

The flesh and blood baby boy, that fulfilled God's words. The birth of Jesus fulfilled promises made to Eve, to Enoch, to Abraham, to Judah, and to David.... "by the mouth of all HIS holy prophets since the world began".

In John 1:14,

• John is saying, "the Word was made flesh".
• John is NOT saying, "the flesh and blood baby boy fulfilled God's words".
• John is NOT saying, "the birth of Jesus fulfilled God's words".
• John is NOT saying, "flesh fulfilled the Word".
• John is NOT referring to a PLURALITY of words as "the Word".

 

[Dartman]

dart has illegitimate totality transfer of "logos"

the word is him , Jesus . Dart ignores this fact too.

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

The text simply doesn't say what you wish it said.

And, other texts CLEARLY contradict your INTERPRETATION.

Jesus isn't mentioned in John 1 until verse 7.

 

[Dartman]

Jesus here is saying " his commandment"
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."

You skipped Jesus' clarification;
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So, w2g, is Jesus telling the truth??

Jesus here is saying "

my commandments "
Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Absolutely correct. The question is, what does he mean by "my commandments"? Did God GIVE Jesus those commandments? If so, then when Jesus speaks those commandments, they ARE Christ's commandments. But, Jesus is not the SOURCE of the commandments .... none of them.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


So, w2g, is Jesus telling the truth??

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes. It always means "something spoken, or written.

Obfuscation.

I'm asking if you think that the "logos" of the passage you quoted is the same "logos" of John 1:1.

Or is it possible that they're talking about two different "logos"?

No, it's called exegesis.

Actually, as W2G pointed out, it's an illegitimate totality transfer.

:blabla:

:AMR:

:idunno:

You keep claiming "God's logos", yet John 1:1 does not say "In the beginning was God's word, and the word was with God, and the word was God."

Of course it does!!

No, it doesn't. Read what I wrote again.

That's what logos means!!

So you're claiming now that "logos" means "God's word"?

:AMR:

:blabla: This invented capitalization of the word ...

... Has nothing to do with the point that I'm trying to make, and making extremely clearly, yet somehow you keep missing it.

SLOWER!:

You keep claiming "God's logos", yet John 1:1 does not say "In the beginning was God's word, and God's word was with God, and God's word was God."

It says, in actuality, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and God was the Word.

 

[Dartman]

I'm asking if you think that the "logos" of the passage you quoted is the same "logos" of John 1:1.

If you are asking if the words being discussed in John 1, are the SAME words God commanded Jesus to speak, the answer is "no".
If you are asking if "logos" in John 1 is discussing "something spoken, or written", and are ALL the other Scriptures discussing "something spoken, or written"...... absolutely!

You keep claiming "God's logos", yet John 1:1 does not say "In the beginning was God's word, and God's word was with God, and God's word was God."

God's spoken words were in the beginning, and were with God, God's spoken words DEFINE God, they ARE God. That's what the verse means.

It says;
Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

 

[JudgeRightly]

If you are asking if the words being discussed in John 1, are the SAME words God commanded Jesus to speak, the answer is "no".

Then why bring up John 14:24? If it's not the same "logos" being referenced, then your argument falls apart.

John 1:1 is talking about the Word who was with and was God. There is no "God's" (possessive) in that passage, so why do you insist on inserting it there?

God's

This is something you have inserted into the text. It is not actually in the text.

spoken words

No, "the word." Word. Singular.

NOT words. Word.

were in the beginning, and were with God, God's spoken words DEFINE God, they ARE God. That's what the verse means.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

The verse says: In (the) beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word.

It means exactly what it says. Inserting "God's" (possessive) into the verse to make it say something that it does NOT say is called eisegesis. You're reading into scripture something that is NOT in scripture.

Show us in the Bible where it says "God's spoken words define God and are God."

You can't, because no verse states that.

 

[Dartman]

Then why bring up John 14:24? If it's not the same "logos" being referenced, then your argument falls apart.

If you are asking if "logos" in John 1 is discussing "something spoken, or written", and are ALL the other Scriptures discussing "something spoken, or written"...... absolutely!

 

[JudgeRightly]

If you are asking if "logos" in John 1 is discussing "something spoken, or written", and are ALL the other Scriptures discussing "something spoken, or written"...... absolutely!

Go back and read my post again.

 

[Dartman]

Go back and read my post again.

I did. The answer remains the same.
Logos ALWAYS means "something spoken, or written" in John's Gospel .

 

[Apple7]

Get a grip...

Get a grip...

You skipped Jesus' clarification;
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

The Commandments of God:


The First Person of The Trinity commanded Moses to cut two tablets of stone (Deut 10.1; Exo 34.1 – 4), as spoken to Moses by The Second Person of The Trinity (Deut 4.12 – 13; Deut 5.22; Deut 9.10; Deut 10.4), and written by the Third Person of The Trinity (Exo 31.18; Deut 9.10).

 

[Apple7]

:cigar: