I have given up on trying to get Watchman to accept the plain facts of Hebrew grammar. He needs the facts to be different than they are in order to have some support for his ideas- therefore the facts are different, and reality doesn't count. That's logic for you.
Is the Holy Spirit Female?
- Thread starter WatchmanOnTheWall
- Start date
I have given up on trying to get Watchman to accept the plain facts of Hebrew grammar. He needs the facts to be different than they are in order to have some support for his ideas- therefore the facts are different, and reality doesn't count. That's logic for you.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
TheThirdAngel144
New member
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Nope.
The word 'children' in Hebrew is masculine.
So when scripture says 'the children of Israel", by your messed up logic all of them were males.
Yes, he is using very poor logic.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
You need to read more than 8 words to understand. Either you believe what the Bible says or you don't:
Job 33:4
עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me
תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Duh! Obviously 'children' include males and females so of course a feminine or masculine pronoun has to be used and because the rules are that masculine takes dominance over feminine then that is why it is masculine. They are the rules of grammar, not my rules. You obviously did not know this.
If the Holy spirit was male then a masculine pronoun would have been used but it wasn't because She is female. you either believe what the Bible says or you don't.
Job 33:4
עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me
תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf
Last edited:
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
The Holy Spirit is not an inanimate object as you think. If you had Her inside you would know that.
Job 33:4
עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me
תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf
This proves that the use of "she" in that linear translation can refer to an inanimate object. So that translation cannot be used to support Watchman's idea.
I doubt he'll be willing to accept this. So it goes.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
You have been reduced to debating yourself.
The Holy Spirit is not an inanimate object as you think. If you had Her inside you would know that.
Job 33:4
עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me
תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf
The Bible calls the Spirit "He" and "Him" and "Himself". Imma stick with that.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Oh no it doesn't, the pronoun SHE is use every time in the original Hebrew scriptures when describing the Holy Spirit, while the New Testament Greek only used non-gender pronouns and never calls the Holy Spirit He. Reading the OP before posting is always wise.
When nobody is home at the other end, I am reduced to making sure others don't make the same errors.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Job 33:4
עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me
תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
More light shared, true to nature...............
More light shared, true to nature...............
For those interested I would refer to my previous commentary here which expounds on an underlying foundational understanding of 'Deity and Gender'. Here is also earlier commentary on the divine feminine, linking some posts that I was banned for, just for recognizing the female element that originates in God, and must be EQUAL to the masculine element, since BOTH are intrinsic to LIFE and CREATION. These are universal truths that I am not ashamed of, and will joyously expound, along with other truths of nature.
WOTW's misdirection and insistence comes from holding to a dogmatic point of view on the HS being female 'person', when this is not a necessary dogma, in as much as we recognize and honor 'God' as both Father and Mother to all Creation. Even on this point, my view is much less 'blasphemous' than his, since I have nowhere claimed a dogmatic insistence that the HS be proclaimed as female, or be given a due pronoun 'she' or 'her', although I might infer that or write that way, to indicate a gendered nuance within any given context.
Our love for 'God' includes every aspect of God's nature and character, and to neglect, deny or suppress any gender, when they are complete, equal and synergized in God, is erroneous and misdirected. Since the wholeness of God ever includes every aspect of his Nature, we would not render God the honor and worship he is owed if we did not honor and worship his WHOLE nature, for he is HOLY, and that most certainly includes worshipping Him in the beauty of holiness. This cannot be done without also honoring God as divine Mother as well.
My sharings in this thread and the above linked posts (see all links) comprise the sum of my thoughts so far on the subject. Again, Creator and Creation includes and comprises the full synergy, intercourse and inter-play of 'masculine' and 'feminine' energies, apart from which CREATION would not be. To deny this would be to deny God's holiness, his very nature, character, being....which is revealed in creation.
More light shared, true to nature...............
For those interested I would refer to my previous commentary here which expounds on an underlying foundational understanding of 'Deity and Gender'. Here is also earlier commentary on the divine feminine, linking some posts that I was banned for, just for recognizing the female element that originates in God, and must be EQUAL to the masculine element, since BOTH are intrinsic to LIFE and CREATION. These are universal truths that I am not ashamed of, and will joyously expound, along with other truths of nature.
WOTW's misdirection and insistence comes from holding to a dogmatic point of view on the HS being female 'person', when this is not a necessary dogma, in as much as we recognize and honor 'God' as both Father and Mother to all Creation. Even on this point, my view is much less 'blasphemous' than his, since I have nowhere claimed a dogmatic insistence that the HS be proclaimed as female, or be given a due pronoun 'she' or 'her', although I might infer that or write that way, to indicate a gendered nuance within any given context.
Our love for 'God' includes every aspect of God's nature and character, and to neglect, deny or suppress any gender, when they are complete, equal and synergized in God, is erroneous and misdirected. Since the wholeness of God ever includes every aspect of his Nature, we would not render God the honor and worship he is owed if we did not honor and worship his WHOLE nature, for he is HOLY, and that most certainly includes worshipping Him in the beauty of holiness. This cannot be done without also honoring God as divine Mother as well.
My sharings in this thread and the above linked posts (see all links) comprise the sum of my thoughts so far on the subject. Again, Creator and Creation includes and comprises the full synergy, intercourse and inter-play of 'masculine' and 'feminine' energies, apart from which CREATION would not be. To deny this would be to deny God's holiness, his very nature, character, being....which is revealed in creation.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Do you believe in the trinity?
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
deleat
Tigger 2
Active member
Chair replied to Tambora:
You are both absolutely correct about the Hebrew grammar, of course!
If Holy Spirit had been a mature person instead of a thing, it would have been in either the masculine or the feminine in both Hebrew and NT Greek!
For example, 'woman,' ' 'mother,' 'goddess,' 'maiden,' 'maidservant,' 'princess,' etc. are in the feminine gender in BOTH the NT and the OT.
And 'God,' 'man,' 'priest,' 'prophet,' 'father,' 'prince,' etc. are in the masculine gender in BOTH the OT and the NT.
But holy spirit is in the feminine gender in the OT (which has no neuter gender and most often uses the feminine gender instead). Furthermore the NT Greek does use a neuter gender. And since 'holy spirit' in the NT is in the neuter gender, it means that it cannot be a mature person, but is something: A force or energy which God uses in numerous ways.
You are both absolutely correct about the Hebrew grammar, of course!
If Holy Spirit had been a mature person instead of a thing, it would have been in either the masculine or the feminine in both Hebrew and NT Greek!
For example, 'woman,' ' 'mother,' 'goddess,' 'maiden,' 'maidservant,' 'princess,' etc. are in the feminine gender in BOTH the NT and the OT.
And 'God,' 'man,' 'priest,' 'prophet,' 'father,' 'prince,' etc. are in the masculine gender in BOTH the OT and the NT.
But holy spirit is in the feminine gender in the OT (which has no neuter gender and most often uses the feminine gender instead). Furthermore the NT Greek does use a neuter gender. And since 'holy spirit' in the NT is in the neuter gender, it means that it cannot be a mature person, but is something: A force or energy which God uses in numerous ways.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Clarifications.....
Clarifications.....
I do not limit, confine or subscribe 'God' to the definitions of Orthodox Christian creed or dogmas, or any particular religious definition necessarily.....since the Infinite cannot be so sub-scribed.
What I set forth in my commentary on the 'Father-Mother-God', or the feminine aspect of Deity is according to universal energy, principle, concept and nature, as both 'male' and 'female' interact within Creation.
A Trinity of Father-Mother-Son within this context is rational to include in its comprehension, without one having to hold to a traditional-orthodox concept of 'The Trinity' as christian creeds define it, neither a dogmatic insistence for defining each aspect of the Godhead as 'persons' necessarily. I've detailed the various aspects, nuances and dimensions of 'personality' as God expresses his character/nature personally in relationships, and in other ways seemingly non-personal in the cosmos. Therefore there are BOTH 'personal' and 'non-personal' aspects of 'God' within Creation while anything 'personal' is something that is experienced between personalities.
Otherwise, I've held a more Unitarian monotheistic or monist theology, more panentheistic, but all aspects of God and the male and female qualities of soul and spirit are experienced personally, thru aspects of 'personality', so...this can include a more creedal definition of 'The Trinity' of Orthodox Christianity, as well as a more liberal inclusion of the divine feminine within a trinity of Father-Mother-Son, the Holy Spirit representing the feminine or 'divine Mother' aspect of God.
As being more of a theosophist, I recognize the universal laws and principles of gender within the Creator and Creation. I would not push the Holy Spirit as being a female 'person' dogmatically, but only recognize God as being a Father and Mother to all creation, honoring the glory of God and respecting God's nature and parenting of creation as such. I would extend beyond orthodoxy, and see the divine feminine within both Judaism and Christianity, as Sophia (Wisdom), the Shekinah (indwelling presence), Holy Spirit. Our worship of God inherently must include the whole of God, all of God's being, qualities, nature, attributes, in their pure essence, no matter how such qualities are personified.
Clarifications.....
I do not limit, confine or subscribe 'God' to the definitions of Orthodox Christian creed or dogmas, or any particular religious definition necessarily.....since the Infinite cannot be so sub-scribed.
What I set forth in my commentary on the 'Father-Mother-God', or the feminine aspect of Deity is according to universal energy, principle, concept and nature, as both 'male' and 'female' interact within Creation.
A Trinity of Father-Mother-Son within this context is rational to include in its comprehension, without one having to hold to a traditional-orthodox concept of 'The Trinity' as christian creeds define it, neither a dogmatic insistence for defining each aspect of the Godhead as 'persons' necessarily. I've detailed the various aspects, nuances and dimensions of 'personality' as God expresses his character/nature personally in relationships, and in other ways seemingly non-personal in the cosmos. Therefore there are BOTH 'personal' and 'non-personal' aspects of 'God' within Creation while anything 'personal' is something that is experienced between personalities.
Otherwise, I've held a more Unitarian monotheistic or monist theology, more panentheistic, but all aspects of God and the male and female qualities of soul and spirit are experienced personally, thru aspects of 'personality', so...this can include a more creedal definition of 'The Trinity' of Orthodox Christianity, as well as a more liberal inclusion of the divine feminine within a trinity of Father-Mother-Son, the Holy Spirit representing the feminine or 'divine Mother' aspect of God.
As being more of a theosophist, I recognize the universal laws and principles of gender within the Creator and Creation. I would not push the Holy Spirit as being a female 'person' dogmatically, but only recognize God as being a Father and Mother to all creation, honoring the glory of God and respecting God's nature and parenting of creation as such. I would extend beyond orthodoxy, and see the divine feminine within both Judaism and Christianity, as Sophia (Wisdom), the Shekinah (indwelling presence), Holy Spirit. Our worship of God inherently must include the whole of God, all of God's being, qualities, nature, attributes, in their pure essence, no matter how such qualities are personified.