Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Dear J.R.: No I do not have Scripture for that. LOL.
"The Gentiles listened with delight and extolled the Lord's Message; and all who were pre-destined to the Life of the Ages believed."
"You did not choose Me..." -The Lord Jesus Christ-
Dear J.R.: No I do not have Scripture for that. LOL.
"The Gentiles listened with delight and extolled the Lord's Message; and all who were pre-destined to the Life of the Ages believed."
You did not choose Me... -The Lord Jesus Christ-
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Who are you to judge that?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
"Rightly divides" by what objective margin exactly? Who are you to decide that FL is on his way to "hell"?
I asked you a question so how is that judging you?
You're very quick to label others as hypocrites but you're not exempt.
Dear J.R. What part do you not grasp?
"as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
"Faith is not an art. Faith is not an achievement. Faith is not a good work of which some may boast while others can excuse themselves with a shrug of the shoulders for not being capable of it. It is a decisive insight of faith itself that all of us are incapable of faith in ourselves, whether we think of its preparation, beginning, continuation, or completion." -Karl Barth-
It's called the Bible. You may have heard of it...
Someone who knows things.
Your question was judgmental of me judging FL as unsaved.
Unlike you, I don't think it's wrong to judge, ergo, I'm not a hypocrite for judging.
What part of "if you don't have scripture to back up your claims, then I don't care what you think about where people will end up for eternity" do YOU not grasp?
And?
:think:
Long thread.....no resolution I guess. Hmm. My oh two. Eternal conscious torment is biblical - that is it is discussed in the Bible.....but that doesn’t make it right.
Torture or torment of any kind is evil and wrong. It all ways has been, always will be, and the real God would never do it. So, my question is why do so many people believe such lies about God?
Torture or torment of any kind is evil and wrong. It all ways has been, always will be, and the real God would never do it. So, my question is why do so many people believe such lies about God?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Sure, I've also heard many people state that they're unequivocally right in their interpretation of it and guess what, they don't all agree with each other.
In context, what do you "know" exactly for you to proclaim that FL is on his way to "hell"?
Well, no, it was a question as to how you could judge such a thing and so far you haven't answered and seem more keen on jumping to erroneous presumptions as follows:
Bzzzzzt. Wrong. I don't think there's anything wrong in judging. Where'd ya get that from?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
There's many who don't believe that's what the original texts taught including the early church. Just to add an additional two cents worth...
:e4e:
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
No. I am among the most qualified linguists, semioticists, exegetes, historians, and apologists on TOL. Your entire process is fallacious.
Just because I don’t take the time to explicate volumes that you will merely dismiss, it doesn’t mean I have no clue. Instead, I choose not to waste much time attempting the futility of addressing the results of your corrupt epistemics.
It’s amazing that you think so highly of yourself and your false concepts that aren’t rooted in lexicography of the divinely inspired text.
ECT is nothing like you (or most, including many proponents of ECT) portray it to be. It is a state of being continued from this life, and mercy rejoices against the judgment that is ECT. God does not inflict this torment. And torment is not what you think it to be because you’re absolutely ignorant of Greek semantics and grammar.
God isn’t maliciously roasting unbelievers over an everlasting bonfire like marshmallows for His s’mores snack. In fact, His mercy is in the flames of torment that are the result of righteous judgment. God abates the torment by His presence (enopion), though not His presence (prosopon). You don’t know the difference, just as you know very little else besides your erroneous concepts.
ECT is the everlasting mercy of God for the judgment of the lost. It’s His love externally administered to those whose state of being disallows His love to be internally administered; for after judgment, His grace is not available to those who aren’t in His prosopon (presence).
You don’t even know what that means, so you can’t validly assess ECT (which is not really a good label for the aeviternal state of being of the lost).
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
No opponent of ECT has any real understanding of what it actually is. None. Not one. Not even close. So this isn’t even an argumentative discussion over the validity of ECT at all. It’s a foray into subjective reductive and fallacious opinions based on false concepts.
Not one opponent of ECT has even remotely represented ECT for what it is. Period. (But that won’t stop opponents from continuing with their futile rantings of self-righteous pseudo-importance. Sigh.)
Not one opponent of ECT has even remotely represented ECT for what it is. Period. (But that won’t stop opponents from continuing with their futile rantings of self-righteous pseudo-importance. Sigh.)
Wow!
From Him ta panta comes, through Him ta panta exists, in Him ta panta ends.
way 2 go
Well-known member
people need to repent before they die , after they die the judgement
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:.
by faith or not at all
God is not their father
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
glorydaz
Well-known member
What is it you rightly divide?
Rightly dividing the word of truth is an ongoing process (maturity), and carries some observable clues.....else one sees a lot of pride mixed in.
2 Tim. 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.