Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
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It is eternal, in the lake of fire
Veritas veritate
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I do not believe Christ is wrong about those who believe going on to aionios life, I believe those who translated the word aionios to be everlasting and eternal are the ones who are incorrect. As I stated, aionios life is knowing God the Father and Jesus the Christ who was sent of the Father, and it is only through Christ that we can have aionios life.
My faith and righteousness is Jesus Christ who has justified all men to life through his blood. Those who acknowledge him as the Savior are preserved and are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the redemption, co-heirs with Christ, and have their part in New Jerusalem: whereas those who do not are condemned to forever remain outside of the city, separated from the direct presence of God.
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Veritas veritate
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Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
I understand that this was in context with thinking that ETC was thought to be the punishment, however you bring up a good question: why can’t the death be eternal?
There are a few reasons why this cannot be.
One: Just like life, if it has a beginning it cannot be eternal.
Two: the work that Jesus did on the cross justified all men to life. (1 Corinthians 15:22 and Romans 5:18)
Three: God is immutable, he will never change. How then can we believe that judgement is everlasting when no other judgement made by God has?
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I understand that this was in context with thinking that ETC was thought to be the punishment, however you bring up a good question: why can’t the death be eternal?
There are a few reasons why this cannot be.
One: Just like life, if it has a beginning it cannot be eternal.
Two: the work that Jesus did on the cross justified all men to life. (1 Corinthians 15:22 and Romans 5:18)
Three: God is immutable, he will never change. How then can we believe that judgement is everlasting when no other judgement made by God has?
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exactly.
Again what is your faith, you quoted me asking but didnt answer, are you sda or jw?
Veritas veritate
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Oh, you meant denomination, I apologize.
I do not submit to any denomination or religious institution. My position is in Christ alone. I grew up as an independent baptist, and attend a southern baptist congregation, but that is only because it works with my work schedule. My Grandfather was one of the smartest men I know and taught me to be skeptical of everything until I study it out for myself and stand on my own convictions.
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Then you are saying you are a lone ranger who took soul sleep from the sda and reject eternal damnation which is taught by the baptists. Thanks.
way 2 go
Well-known member
everlasting works
Gen 21:33 And Abraham plantedH5193 a groveH815 in Beersheba,H884 and calledH7121 thereH8033 on the nameH8034 of the LORD,H3068 the everlastingH5769 God.H410
Dan 12:2 And manyH7227 of them that sleepH4480 H3463 in the dustH6083 of the earthH127 shall awake,H6974 someH428 to everlastingH5769 life,H2416 and someH428 to shameH2781 and everlastingH5769 contempt.H1860
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity;
eternal and everlasting work
Mat 25:46 AndG2532 theseG3778 shall go awayG565 intoG1519 everlastingG166 punishment:G2851 butG1161 theG3588 righteousG1342 intoG1519 lifeG2222 eternal.G166
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
what attributes and what god?
human soul survives without the body
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'
eternal conscious punishment is biblical and the bible is the word of God
way 2 go
Well-known member
only God has been around for eternity
and we will exist for eternity.
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
way 2 go
Well-known member
we have a beginning and we are eternal beings
if you are talking universal salvation :kookoo:
judgement day is still future
Rev 20:10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
TestedandTried
New member
It is Biblical. All one need do is a read of Scripture. One such Scripture passage is: Mark 9:48 but most areas where Jesus mentions hell He also mentions fire and eternal flames. Another good example is Revelation. You might want to use Biblegateway.com to search "into hell" or simply "hell" or "fire" or even "fires" to get the picture.
Veritas veritate
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Look up eternity in the dictionary. What is the definition? Only God is eternal, only God is outside of time. We cannot exist for eternity, the only thing we can do is put on immortality.
Veritas veritate
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Please look up the definition of eternal... Your statement makes less sense that ultra-Darwinism.
The fact that you don't know if I am or not shows how little you know about soteriology; however, I will help ease your mind. No, I am not talking about universal salvation. I am talking about universal justification to life, meaning what Christ did on the cross ensured that all men would have their life renewed after death.
Let me ask you a question though. Is God the Savior of all men?
Yes it is, which means that all those who have died are still dead...
I am glad you brought this verse up. There are many questions you have to answer to correctly interpret this verse.
First, what is the lake of fire? Is it a literal lake or is it a symbol for something else?
Second, If the torment is for eternity why does it use "day and night"? Do you not know that there will be no night or day and no need for the sun and moon in heaven because the lamb, Jesus Christ will be the light thereof? (Revelation 21:23)
Third, How long is forever? Can you add any more time to forever by adding an additional ever? The correct translation should be for ages and ages: or, to the age of ages.
You have been severely brainwashed by "Orthodox" Christianity. Why don't you use the brain that God gave you for logic and reasoning?
Veritas veritate
New member
I am not a lone ranger. I attend a congregation, I fellowship with other believers, but I also stand for truth, logic, and reasoning when it comes to doctrine.
Soul sleep lacks reasoning, when a body dies so does the soul, it does not posses life again until the resurrection. Resurrection and not rapture by the way.
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e·ter·ni·ty
əˈtərnədē/
noun
noun: eternity
infinite or unending time.
"their love was sealed for eternity"
synonyms: ever, all time, perpetuity
"the memory will remain for eternity"
a state to which time has no application; timelessness.
Theology
endless life after death.
"immortal souls destined for eternity"
synonyms: the afterlife, everlasting life, life after death, the hereafter, the afterworld, the next world; More
heaven, paradise, immortality
"souls destined for eternity"
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Definition of immortality
: the quality or state of being immortal:
a : unending existence
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:think: doesnt seem you know the definition of these words and clear you dont believe the bible.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
way 2 go said:
Love. Something that legalists and dogmatic fundamentalists show little understanding of and exhibit the same. The cold, callous disregard for other people's suffering is a constant with ardent adherents to this type of doctrine.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Don't read your own doctrine into that verse.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.