Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
way 2 go
Well-known member
more of your Illegitimate Totality Transfer.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son
as explained before Jesus had to die because we could not pay
the penalty of eternal punishment.
that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
guessing more of your Illegitimate Totality Transfer
on the word apollumi perish\destroy
Christians perish all the time.
way 2 go
Well-known member
tortured, where do you get tortured ? God is not going to torture anyone.
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
CherubRam
New member
The indignity and contempt is from the living against the dead. The dead know nothing. Now go play stupid with someone else.
way 2 go
Well-known member
how do you even attempt that as an interpretation
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
some to everlasting life
some to shame and everlasting contempt
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Uh huh, so people can actually escape from a condition of eternal conscious torment can they?
Please don't bother adding some stupid little gif if you bother to reply either.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
not "tortured"
tormented
tormented
| Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. |
Sounds like something ISIS would teach and ironically from the same place in the world.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ok doser,
re: "not 'tortured' tormented"
What's the difference with being tormented with fire and brimstone as opposed to being tortured with fire and brimstone?
Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - "The word commonly denotes severe torture.”
Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - "Torment (βασανισμος — basanismos). Late word for torture..."
re: "not 'tortured' tormented"
What's the difference with being tormented with fire and brimstone as opposed to being tortured with fire and brimstone?
Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - "The word commonly denotes severe torture.”
Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - "Torment (βασανισμος — basanismos). Late word for torture..."
I don't think you know what "Illegitimate Totality Transfer" even means.
WHAT!? That is the exact OPPOSITE of what John 3:16 says!!!
Christians do not "perish all the time". Christians will be resurrected and will have eternal life and will never perish. Do you even know what perish means? Here's a little hint, perish does not mean to live forever in hell being tortured alive. Besides, you left out the key point, that only those who BELIEVE will have eternal life, not those who reject Christ. If those who reject Christ receive eternal life in hell in order to be tortured alive forever, they also would have to receive eternal life, and according to John 3:16, They do not receive eternal life.
You are very confused about what the Bible says.
way 2 go
Well-known member
that is the discussion
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
:duh:
you've been here for what, more than seven years?
and you still don't know what you have to do to escape eternal damnation? :dizzy:
man, that's some extra strength retardedness you got going on there, son :darwinsm:
:mock:tardlyartie, who's missed the message for more than seven years
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way 2 go
Well-known member
does the rich man ask a question that would lead us to believe
he is being consumed by fire ? :nono:
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'
way 2 go
Well-known member
Illegitimate Totality Transfer simply means to illegitimately ( wrongly) transfer a word’s total possible meaning, with all its variations and nuances, and forcing them all into a particular context.
Illegitimate Totality Transfer
so you are saying we can pay for our own sin :idunno:
Jesus perished and rose from the dead
Christians perish and are resurrected
G622 apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Jesus is life,
those without him are dead spiritually
bible does not refer to the wicked as having life , alive yes
Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
:nono: the confusion is yours
Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
You certainly are stubborn. ITT means taking one minor definition of a word and insisting that the word means THAT regardless of the context. A Textbook example of that is what you are doing, by taking a minor definition of apollumi and insisting that is the meaning in John 3:16, even though the context proves that "to perish" means "to not receive eternal life".
Where do you come up with this baloney? I NEVER ONCE said that we could pay for our own sin. I believe you will say anything to justify your doctrine, whether or not it is true. I believe that ONLY Jesus Christ can pay the penalty for our sins, which is death. His DEATH on the cross pays the debt of DEATH that we owe for our sins. We CANNOT pay for our own sins because that would result in our DEATH! You are being intellectually dishonest in your argument.
Illegitimate Totality Transfer means to take one minor defintion of a word (ie lose), and insist that the word (apollumi) means that, regardless of the context in which the word is used. The context PROVES that the word apoletai in John 3:16 really does mean PERISH, which is to lose out on having eternal life. The contrast in John 3:16 is between PERISHING (NOT having eternal life) and NOT PERISHING (Having eternal life).
So "Way2Go" upon reading your posts, it is obvious that you believe that we can pay for our own sins by being tortured alive in hell for all eternity. :idunno:
CherubRam
New member
If those who promote Hell are not stupid, then perhaps they are trying to make God appear as evil.