Is scripture the infallible Word Of God?

[Ben Masada]

The Tanach is what happens when a persecuted and overly self important group of Zionist had the freedom to write or rewrite their own history.

No other race of people on earth recall being descended from Noah :readthis:

It means that Mark Twain was right in his Essay about the "immortality" of the Jews as a People.

THE ESSAY OF MARK TWAIN ABOUT THE JEWS

"If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way.

Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk.

His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers.

He has made a marvelous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it.

The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed suit, and made a vast noise, and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it has burned out, and they sit either in twilight now, or have vanished.

The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Mark Twain

 

[freelight]

Originals man originals. Forget the poor copies

Show us the originals.

 

[Bright Raven]

I don't believe you or the church government who cooked the books! There are many errors in the Bible idol.

The errors are?

 

[Caino]

The errors are?

Apart from just a little common sense, there are plenty of lists on the net as well as the scholarly analysis of the redacted books of Babylon. You can go search for yourself but I have found that Bible worshipers generally are "usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. There are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty."

Idolaters are superstitious people who are unable to live by faith in the spirit, they must have a material object of worship like a golden calf, totem pole etc.

 

[Bright Raven]

Apart from just a little common sense, there are plenty of lists on the net as well as the scholarly analysis of the redacted books of Babylon. You can go search for yourself but I have found that Bible worshipers generally are "usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. There are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty."

Idolaters are superstitious people who are unable to live by faith in the spirit, they must have a material object of worship like a golden calf, totem pole etc.

2 Peter 1:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

 

[Caino]

It means that Mark Twain was right in his Essay about the "immortality" of the Jews as a People.

THE ESSAY OF MARK TWAIN ABOUT THE JEWS

"If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way.

Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk.

His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers.

He has made a marvelous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it.

The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed suit, and made a vast noise, and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it has burned out, and they sit either in twilight now, or have vanished.

The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Mark Twain

Indeed, the Jews were chosen and fostered by God due to their superior bloodlines. They were to host the Son of man on earth and become oracles from Jerusalem of his original Gospel meant for all mankind. But being privileged went to their heads. They rebuked their sacred calling and culturally segregated themselves from the world.

Today the Jews remain discredited false prophets, orphans. It's sad, there is something rather immortal about your generational pride blindness.

 

[Caino]

2 Peter 1:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

The prophets were mocked, mistreated and killed by the elite priest class. Only later generations came to appreciate that some of their utterances came true, so later generations of redactors did indeed include the prophets. That doesn't make the books infallible. The "news" isn't the newspaper.

 

[Bright Raven]

All prophetic utterances come true.

 

[TulipBee]

Show us the originals.

Accuracy copies of the originals. Want me to ask you the originals the ub translated from?

 

[TulipBee]

Facts are facts which have been provided for you to consider about what the Bible actually is (the various texts written by various authors, in different times, with different agendas, etc.) - it was at a later times that such 'texts' (with all their variants) were considered 'scripture', or alluded to as 'The Holy Bible' (only after its canonization and formal term of 'Holy Bible' was applied to it).

There is no proof that the 'Bible' as traditionally assumed (only 66 books?) is 'inerrant' or 'infallible', beyond your own assumption and 'belief' that such is so. NONE. - this isn't Bible bashing either, its being honest with the text itself and the historical/cultural/social realities in their 'production'. There are mistakes, errors and contradictions in the Bible. This isn't a problem to people who might revere the bible as inspired writing (more or less), its only a problem with those claiming 'biblical inerrancy'.

I don't see a need for Catholic bashing either,...you protestants can actually thank them for some things, despite their own religious trappings. There are Catholics who "love the Lord" just as well as 'protestants', if not better, within their own 'tradition'. Otherwise, sacred tradition is respected in many religious groups and there is nothing wrong with including the Apocrypha or other non-canonical books in one's canon.

The spirit must speak to you on those things. Till then post away. Somebody might read your posts

 

[Caino]

All prophetic utterances come true.

Some came true, others did not. Even John got it wrong, influenced by the erroneous ideas of Daniel:



"So he began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"


No "wrath" came, just a very nice Liberal Son of God who never resorted to the human barber isms predicted by Daniel or John.

 

[Bright Raven]

:idunno: what you're talking about

 

[freelight]

Apples and oranges.....

Apples and oranges.....

Accuracy copies of the originals. Want me to ask you the originals the ub translated from?

I have no quibbles with 'variant readings' granted some different manuscript families or traditions as far as the Bible goes, but we're dealing also with translation-variables and differences of 'interpretation' coming with the translating from one language to another, as far as the English rendering goes, since the Bible was NOT originally written in English.

The Urantia Book was originally written in English, and one can access the original 1955 printing of the UB for the oldest rendering of the orginal text. Some changes were made during or inbetween some succeeding printing-periods, but these were mostly punctuation issues, and did not effect the over-all message and meaning of the text itself, so you basically have the original being presented via copies. Of course you could make the same claim with the Bible, but there are some differences in how the Bible and UB were compiled and how they came to be. However, since the UB openly describes and affirms the process and limitations of revelation per each dispensation, especially coming thru finite, imperfect human channels, and the distortion of language, it makes no claims of 'inerrancy' or 'infallibility', since the revelation itself will be added to and modified to a greater vision of truth by way of progressive revelation in the ages to come, since that is the nature of 'progressive revelation'.

Lets note that its the message or content of the writings themselves that have meaning and value, in any case, whether you have accurate copies of supposed 'originals' or not. Recognizing meaning and value in a religious text does not require a belief in its 'ineranncy' or 'infallibility'.

 

[TulipBee]

I have no quibbles with 'variant readings' granted some different manuscript families or traditions as far as the Bible goes, but we're dealing also with translation-variables and differences of 'interpretation' coming with the translating from one language to another, as far as the English rendering goes, since the Bible was NOT originally written in English.

The Urantia Book was originally written in English, and one can access the original 1955 printing of the UB for the oldest rendering of the orginal text. Some changes were made during or inbetween some succeeding printing-periods, but these were mostly punctuation issues, and did not effect the over-all message and meaning of the text itself, so you basically have the original being presented via copies. Of course you could make the same claim with the Bible, but there are some differences in how the Bible and UB were compiled and how they came to be. However, since the UB openly describes and affirms the process and limitations of revelation per each dispensation, especially coming thru finite, imperfect human channels, and the distortion of language, it makes no claims of 'inerrancy' or 'infallibility', since the revelation itself will be added to and modified to a greater vision of truth by way of progressive revelation in the ages to come, since that is the nature of 'progressive revelation'.

Lets note that its the message or content of the writings themselves that have meaning and value, in any case, whether you have accurate copies of supposed 'originals' or not. Recognizing meaning and value in a religious text does not require a belief in its 'ineranncy' or 'infallibility'.

The bible said it God breathed and the believers -will- recognize that. God didn't give you permission to recognize it so all is good. Let it be as God predestined.

 

[freelight]

Aren't you cute.......

Aren't you cute.......

The bible said it God breathed and the believers -will- recognize that.

You mean one writer in one passage in the NT said all 'scripture' was God breathed, and that writer was not Paul, since the Pastorals are 2nd century productions (pseudographs)

I think someone with the Spirit of God will recognize anything written that has truth, of course, but this isn't limited to just what is in a particular 'canon' chosen by a particular religious group.

See: 2nd Timothy

God didn't give you permission to recognize it so all is good.

You mean the 'god' of your imagination? I don't imagine 'Real God' is a dispenser of 'permissions', since his reality is omnipresent and all-pervading....if we attribute to Deity the absolute values and qualities of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. On the Absolute level of Reality, God is All That IS. The Infinite One. - all else are abstract finite conceptions, which theology and philosophy make a play of. - on the finite level, all is 'relative'.

Let it be as God predestined.

Well,....I recognize divine providence in the cosmos as all-governing, but there is also a realm of 'free choosing' within that providence that affects and conditions destiny

 

[TulipBee]

You mean one writer in one passage in the NT said all 'scripture' was God breathed, and that writer was not Paul, since the Pastorals are 2nd century productions (pseudographs)

I think someone with the Spirit of God will recognize anything written that has truth, of course, but this isn't limited to just what is in a particular 'canon' chosen by a particular religious group.

See: 2nd Timothy



You mean the 'god' of your imagination? I don't imagine 'Real God' is a dispenser of 'permissions', since his reality is omnipresent and all-pervading....if we attribute to Deity the absolute values and qualities of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. On the Absolute level of Reality, God is All That IS. The Infinite One. - all else are abstract finite conceptions, which theology and philosophy make a play of. - on the finite level, all is 'relative'.



Well,....I recognize divine providence in the cosmos as all-governing, but there is also a realm of 'free choosing' within that providence that affects and conditions destiny

You said nothing intelligent. Open the mind has nothing to do with intelligence. You don't need the UB intelligence to understand scripture. Your pride is extremely boring. The*Scriptures*are said to be God-breathed, i.e., inspired.*Second Timothy 3:16*says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." The word, "inspired," is 'theopneustos,' God-breathed. This means that Scripture comes from God. Jesus said in Luke 24:44-45,*"'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things*which are written about Me*in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.'*45*Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures." Notice the Scriptures are referred to as the entire Old Testament. Furthermore, Jesus said in*John 10:35,*“If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken)."

 

[Caino]

You said nothing intelligent. Open the mind has nothing to do with intelligence. You don't need the UB intelligence to understand scripture. Your pride is extremely boring. The*Scriptures*are said to be God-breathed, i.e., inspired.*Second Timothy 3:16*says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." The word, "inspired," is 'theopneustos,' God-breathed. This means that Scripture comes from God. Jesus said in Luke 24:44-45,*"'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things*which are written about Me*in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.'*45*Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures." Notice the Scriptures are referred to as the entire Old Testament. Furthermore, Jesus said in*John 10:35,*“If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken)."

2 Timothy wasn't scripture when the author gave their personal opinion about the Torah. The Catholic church made Paul's letters and opinions into "the Word of God". Bible worshipers can't face this because of all the 66 books of the current Bible, 2 Timothy is the only place giving the opinion.

 

[TulipBee]

2 Timothy wasn't scripture when the author gave their personal opinion about the Torah. The Catholic church made Paul's letters and opinions into "the Word of God". Bible worshipers can't face this because of all the 66 books of the current Bible, 2 Timothy is the only place giving the opinion.

Opinions opinions opinions on what God said. I'm so glad the ub self claimed intelligence don't blind me

 

[Caino]

Opinions opinions opinions on what God said. I'm so glad the ub self claimed intelligence don't blind me

I'm so glad I have the freedom of Christ to stand up against the exaggerated, idolatrous writings of those priest whose Father Jesus called the devil! Jesus knew the scripture books were not accurate.

 

[TulipBee]

I'm so glad I have the freedom of Christ to stand up against the exaggerated, idolatrous writings of those priest whose Father Jesus called the devil! Jesus knew the scripture books were not accurate.

Mankind thinks they have free will