ECT In spite of Gal 2, Peter considered himself apostle to the Gentiles

[musterion]

Rom 10: 31-33 1:1-4

31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.

So here we see that Israel was supposed to be seeking the righteousness of God which is by faith, that was originally promised to Abraham.

For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Ah, so the Jews didn't submit to the righteousness of God which is by faith?
Instead they trusted in the same law that the mads say they were supposed to be trusting in. However, Paul says that they were supposed to believe, in order to receive righteousness by faith.

Explain Paul's non-rebuke in Acts 21:20-21. THOUSANDS of believing Jews keeping the Law zealously and it's a point of pride among them. Paul says nothing to counter it. Indeed, they had heard Paul was telling Jews far afield not to observe Moses, which Paul did not do. Instead, Paul did exactly as they asked (Acts 21:26).

Reconcile this with the Romans passage you're fond of quoting.

 

[andyc]

Changing the subject again I see.

Cheerio!

 

[andyc]

Explain Paul's non-rebuke in Acts 21:20.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law

Jewish believers didn't automatically drop the law when they believed. Christ is the end of the law to those who believe. They would either have to come to understand this, or they would become who Paul referred to as mutilators.

 

[musterion]

They would either have to come to understand this

Speculation. They had Christ and were keeping the Law zealously, in faith. They definitely believed but Paul said nothing to them about Christ ending the Law.

or they would become who Paul referred to as mutilators.

Speculation. They were circumcising even then but Paul said not one word of rebuke about anything they did. And Paul used that label against those who sought to circumcise his Gentiles.

Andy doesn't know and doesn't care that he doesn't know, so he makes up speculations to have something to babble about. Deaf and blind but not my problem.

 

[andyc]

Speculation. Paul never indicates that they didn't.



Speculation. They were doing so even then but Paul said not one word of rebuke about anything they did.

Andy doesn't know and doesn't care that he doesn't know, so he makes up speculations to have something to babble about. Deaf and blind but not my problem.

Explained above.

The Jewish believers you refer to, also thought that the gentiles should be circumcised. It was a big cultural transition, one that Peter struggled with.

Gal 2:14- 16
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.


Peter was living as a gentile, and Paul said "even we who are justified by faith in Christ". Paul gave him a slap for compromising.

 

[andyc]

Speculation. They had Christ and were keeping the Law zealously, in faith. They definitely believed but Paul said nothing to them about Christ ending the Law.

How can a person keep the law in faith, when it is a works based system?

Galatians 3:12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

Speculation. They were circumcising even then but Paul said not one word of rebuke about anything they did. And Paul used that label against those who sought to circumcise his Gentiles.

Andy doesn't know and doesn't care that he doesn't know, so he makes up speculations to have something to babble about. Deaf and blind but not my problem.

Romans 3:1-2
What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.

Paul had previously showed how that true circumcision was by the Spirit upon the heart. This brought the reader to the conclusion, "well is circumcision completely worthless now"?

This in itself shows that faith in Christ now unites Jews and gentiles, but Paul went on to explain how that circumcision still identified them as physically tied to Abraham, and the people who were first committed with the word of God.

 

[andyc]

Musterion rep comment

Coward. Fraud. Liar.

 

[Danoh]

Rom 10: 31-33 1:1-4

31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.

So here we see that Israel was supposed to be seeking the righteousness of God which is by faith, that was originally promised to Abraham.

For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Ah, so the Jews didn't submit to the righteousness of God which is by faith?
Instead they trusted in the same law that the mads say they were supposed to be trusting in. However, Paul says that they were supposed to believe, in order to receive righteousness by faith.

What a mess.

Try studying out the issue of how faith worked under the Law.

Three places to start are Romans 2:17 to the end of the chapter; which is exactly the required keeping of faith under the Law that the Lord was talking about in John 5, and the exact keeping of faith under the Law that the Spirit speaking through Stephen in Acts 7, accuses Israel of not having kept, right before they kill him.

 

[God's Truth]

I have no idea who that man is, but it reminds me of this awesome thing that Paul said:

Galatians 4:14 and yet the bodily infirmity which was such a trial to you, you did not regard with contempt or loathing, but you received me as if I had been an angel of God or Christ Jesus Himself!

 

[God's Truth]

What a mess.

Try studying out the issue of how faith worked under the Law.

The old law was NOT BASED ON FAITH.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."


That is what God did not like, a person could sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins. As long as a person would do the purification/ceremonial works to clean oneself, then they were considered a child of God.

P.S. Danoh, why didn't you respond to that post I made where you said that I hit on something about the millennial sacrifices?

 

[God's Truth]

What a mess.

Try studying out the issue of how faith worked under the Law.

Three places to start are Romans 2:17 to the end of the chapter; which is exactly the required keeping of faith under the Law that the Lord was talking about in John 5, and the exact keeping of faith under the Law that the Spirit speaking through Stephen in Acts 7, accuses Israel of not having kept, right before they kill him.

The Jews who did NOT have faith when Jesus had his earthly ministry---they were CUT OFF FROM GOD and hardened so that they could NOT be saved WHILE Jesus walked the earth.

Jesus came to give us a NEW Covenant...a covenant that required faith that HE CLEANS US---not where the Jews have to clean themselves with animal blood.

That is just more of God's Truth for you to think of---and it PROVES THAT JESUS CAME WITH A NEW COVENANT OF GRACE, and not something for Paul to speak of to Gentiles sometime later.

 

[God's Truth]

How can a person keep the law in faith, when it is a works based system?

Well, there were Jews who kept the law (the purification/ceremonial words) AND DID HAVE FAITH TOO. But then there were Jews who did those righteous acts of being circumcised and offering animals but did NOT have faith. Those are the Jews that God did not like who sinned, did the righteous acts of giving animals for blood---but were NOT really sorry for their sins.

Faith makes the difference. Faith and obedience work together.

We no longer have to get circumcised and offer animals, but we MUST HAVE FAITH, and we must obey.

 

[God's Truth]

Explained above.

The Jewish believers you refer to, also thought that the gentiles should be circumcised. It was a big cultural transition, one that Peter struggled with.

Gal 2:14- 16
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.


Peter was living as a gentile, and Paul said "even we who are justified by faith in Christ". Paul gave him a slap for compromising.

Peter struggled with it because he was afraid.

 

[andyc]

What a mess.

Try studying out the issue of how faith worked under the Law.

Three places to start are Romans 2:17 to the end of the chapter; which is exactly the required keeping of faith under the Law that the Lord was talking about in John 5, and the exact keeping of faith under the Law that the Spirit speaking through Stephen in Acts 7, accuses Israel of not having kept, right before they kill him.

Don't be lazy.

The new testament deals with the issue of a attaining the righteousness of God through faith, which cannot be done through the law because it is a works based covenant towards the natural man which stands condemned in Adam.


Back up your stupid comments with scripture, or leave the thread.

 

[andyc]

Well, there were Jews who kept the law (the purification/ceremonial words) AND DID HAVE FAITH TOO. But then there were Jews who did those righteous acts of being circumcised and offering animals but did NOT have faith. Those are the Jews that God did not like who sinned, did the righteous acts of giving animals for blood---but were NOT really sorry for their sins.

Faith makes the difference. Faith and obedience work together.

We no longer have to get circumcised and offer animals, but we MUST HAVE FAITH, and we must obey.

Obviously those under the old covenant trusted that God had a plan that was yet to be revealed. The way into the holy place was not made known while the first tabernacle was still standing. The flesh had to be removed to enter heaven, but this work of the Spirit was hidden.

 

[God's Truth]

Obviously those under the old covenant trusted that God had a plan that was yet to be revealed.

No, not every Jew had faith in God.

The way into the holy place was not made known while the first tabernacle was still standing. The flesh had to be removed to enter heaven, but this work of the Spirit was hidden.

Don't you know that there were branches/Jews cut off for the time the Messiah walked the earth?

 

[andyc]

No, not every Jew had faith in God.



Don't you know that there were branches/Jews cut off for the time the Messiah walked the earth?

Obviously we're talking about the believers

 

[God's Truth]

Obviously we're talking about the believers

When Jesus started his earthly ministry, God had cut off and hardened the Jews who did not ALREADY belong to Him by faith. Those are the people called the lost sheep of Israel. Why were they called the lost sheep of Israel? Because they had faith in God but needed a Shepherd, unlike the disobeying faithless Pharisees and teachers of the law.

God was about to give a NEW COVENANT based on faith. Of course faith with obedience.

Those Jews who already belonged to God by faith...God gave them to Jesus...they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said he would not lose one that God gave him.

When Jesus was crucified, then ALL could be saved...the cut off Jews, and Gentiles.

 

[Danoh]

Well, there were Jews who kept the law (the purification/ceremonial words) AND DID HAVE FAITH TOO. But then there were Jews who did those righteous acts of being circumcised and offering animals but did NOT have faith. Those are the Jews that God did not like who sinned, did the righteous acts of giving animals for blood---but were NOT really sorry for their sins.

Faith makes the difference....

That is exactly what I'd hoped AC would be shown by those references I cited, had he restudied them out.

Case in point...

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

As for the Millennial thing, what was it you were not clear on as to my post?

 

[john w]

Why won't you answer the question?

1. Why don't you answer most of the questions, that others have asked you, over the years? Rhetorical q. So there.

2. If you would kindly provide chapter and verse, of the scriptures, where the LORD God demands I answer any and all questions, from anyone, especially questions from children of the devil, and insignificant, irrelevant "members" of TOL, such as yourself, I will.

I thought so.