How the Gospel Works

[Lon]

Do you mean,

"I have no idea if they CAN be saved" ?

If so you're dead wrong. ALL, without exception, CAN be saved. That's what the Bible says. That's what grace means. All CAN be reconciled. But TULIP denies that flatly (Limited Atonement). You can't believe both, Lon. Pick one, but stop pretending both can be true. They can't.

Romans 3:23 "Fall short." Simply share the gospel. Again, we are talking about God's Sovereign foreknowledge. It is where the buck stops. If you believe it, it leads to Calvinism, if you don't, it leads to Open Theism. They, and we are right: There is no in between. I'm convinced, from Scripture, God has exhaustive, definite, foreknowledge. I cannot help, but be a Calvinist because of that. I'm not afraid of the accusations, Musterion. Bring them on, but WHY make a thread about the gospel, a thread about Calvinists? There just aren't that many of us. Is it rather, a concern over what scriptures may actually say?

Not if they're reprobates. The Blood was not shed for them (Limited Atonement) and they will receive no Irresistible Grace to quicken and believe. They have ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE.

Can you care more than God? :nono: Can you care more than me? :nono: You are simply crying over 'when' as a nonCalvinist. Simply relegating God 'in the dark' doesn't do it for me. It is too 'easy' and not well-thought out for me, for an answer. It is an intellectual scapegoat. If you guys REALLY thought this all out for yourselves, you'd know this. Simply relegating it to a 'non-thought' didn't work for me. I thought long and hard about all this. Rather, I completely convinced God is in the business of salvation, NOT reprobation. He didn't plant weeds in His own fields. He only planted good there and now, after the evil one planted weeds, God is in rescue-mode.

There is if they're reprobated. You're imploring them to do something God specifically intended they not do.

Incorrect. I do not believe in double-predestination.

You can preach it, they can believe it, but it's absolutely fruitless if they're reprobated, and that by the God of Calvinism's decree.

:nono: Isaiah 55:11

Do you see the box you've trapped yourself in?

It is similar to my hang-ups with Open Theism and so I recognize we tend to compartmentalize another's systematic theology unable to grasp nuances (further details). There are several kinds of Open Theists. The same with Calvinism. AGAIN, you are trying to be more than a planter/waterer. ONLY God gives increase. He says clearly "not your business!" There is no box. I don't try and do His job. There is nobody that can make Calvinism an 'excuse' for not being saved. Nobody.

 

[God's Truth]

You don't.

We don't? We don't eat and drink Jesus? Jesus says NO ONE will have eternal life unless we do, but you say no.

Don't you have any fear of God going against His Word like that?

 

[musterion]

There is no such gospel that says we cannot obey God after being taught about Him.

Depends on how one defines their obedience. 2 Cor 5:16 is always beyond your understanding.

There is no such gospel that says we cannot follow directions and be saved.

You're preaching salvation by works again. At least you're getting more honest about it.

Faith only and Calvinists teach those two errors.

Paul taught faith only, as long as that faith was as described in 1 Cor 15:1-4 and nothing else. You're excluded.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

My only struggle seems to be my inabality to wade through your learned "longeneer" convoluted conclusions.

Given your inability to deal with theological differences, perhaps the best thing for you to do for the Kingdom is to speak less and listen more.

AMR

 

[Lon]

And yet, Paul also says we are not to hinder the Gospel or preach another Gospel...lest we be accursed. So what we plant most certainly matters.

The gospel. You know I preach the same scriptures. Acts 17:30 I believe it!

 

[musterion]

Incorrect. I do not believe in double-predestination.

Calvin did. Why then are you in his fanclub?

:nono: Isaiah 55:11

:nono: God sent forth no word to quicken the reprobate.

I hate to say this but it's clear you have not carefully thought through your theology.

 

[God's Truth]

The gospel. You know I preach the same scriptures. Acts 17:30 I believe it!

You both preach against repenting of sins to be saved.

What do you think Jesus means by repent or perish?

 

[God's Truth]

Depends on how one defines their obedience. 2 Cor 5:16 is always beyond your understanding.



You're preaching salvation by works again. At least you're getting more honest about it.



Paul taught faith only, as long as that faith was as described in 1 Cor 15:1-4 and nothing else. You're excluded.

Your beliefs are just as bizarre and false as the Calvinists.

 

[musterion]

Your beliefs are just as bizarre and false as the Calvinists.

That's just your excuse for being unable to respond intelligently.

 

[God's Truth]

That's just your excuse for being unable to respond intelligently.

Jesus tells us what to do to be saved, you go against it, just as the Calvinists do.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul never taught don't obey only believe.

That is where Faith only goes wrong and Calvinists.

Where is common sense?

Can you imagine your parents telling you not to obey just believe?

Can you imagine your teacher, the government, the police, your boss, anyone telling you not to do what they say just believe?

 

[God's Truth]

All denominations would be extinct if everyone just did what Jesus says in the Bible.

Catholics, one of the oldest denominations do not believe and obey.

Calvinists and faith only do not obey

Mormons do not obey.

New age believers do not obey.

All here go against me for preaching obey so they can promote their false doctrines.

 

[Bright Raven]

All denominations would be extinct if everyone just did what Jesus says in the Bible.

Catholics, one of the oldest denominations do not believe and obey.

Calvinists and faith only do not obey

Mormons do not obey.

New age believers do not obey.

All here go against me for preaching obey so they can promote their false doctrines.

What does the scripture say about eternal life?

John 3:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[Lon]

Calvin did. Why then are you in his fanclub?

I'm not sure he did. I don't even quote Calvin, how could I be in his fan club? I'm a bit of a Spurgeon fan, but don't quote him either. I'm a Keith Green fan. He was nowhere near Calvinist. I'm sometimes your fan, but I admit to remembering more John W quotes.

:nono: God sent forth no word to quicken the reprobate.

He is the Chief Cornerstone OR the Stone the builders rejected. Never second-guess God. Isaiah 55:11 is true. You cannot shake your head at His word. We embrace it. It is not my intention, even in this thread, to make you a Calvinist. It is my intention to post scriptures. I believe, even hear, a " :nono: " doesn't work. His word cannot return to Him void. It goes out and accomplishes His purpose, whatever that may be. His business. I don't love the reprobate more than He does. Can't in fact, but I've cried often enough over the lost around me: for 30 years, over my stepfather. He was saved and died about seven years later. I never stop praying, always hope.

I hate to say this but it's clear you have not carefully thought through your theology.

:think: Did you think you were helping me think through it clearly? I welcome such, if you are of further mind and inclination, but realize in doing such, the analysis process goes both ways. It causes both to analyze what they believe. :e4e:

Imagine, for a moment, I somehow received an Almanac from the future. It'd record all anyone was about to do. Take away the fact that they made those decisions? :nono: Simply recorded them. You are basically accusing God of not coming up with a better plan of salvation. True or False: God could have come up with a plan whereby all men would be saved or insured that there was no need in the first place?

My answer: Kind of like the rock God cannot pick up fallacy, but "false."

 

[musterion]

I'm not sure he did.

The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life,and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny….By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death (Institutes of the Christian Religion 3.21.5).

I've posted this several times in the past, Lon, TO YOUR ATTENTION, along with similar quotes by him. You have to be pretending to be ignorant of it by now. It leads me to doubt your sincerity.

how could I be in his fan club?

I dunno, Lon...maybe your sig or something.

Once again I have to doubt your sincerity.

 

[musterion]

Incidentally, don't fail to catch what Calvin said there: if you doubt double predestination, you're impious.

 

[Cross Reference]

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5 (KJV)

So much for Calvinism, Longeneers, Sproul and AMR's teaching

Rave on.

 

[God's Truth]

What does the scripture say about eternal life?

John 3:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Whoever believes what? That is what you keep leaving out.

Jesus said to obey him and that we should believe that.

 

[Bright Raven]

Whoever believes what? That is what you keep leaving out.

Jesus said to obey him and that we should believe that.

It is what you keep adding that is wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

It is what you keep adding that is wrong.

I am not adding anything.

Show where we are told we do not have to obey.

All those centuries God telling us to obey are worthless now.

All that time Jesus spent walking the earth telling us to what to do is worthless now.

Paul didn't go against God and Jesus and preach only believe.

We have to believe that we are cleaned by Jesus' blood for the sins we repent of doing. We no longer have to clean ourselves just to go to the temple to worship God for we become the temple.