How many people actually caught measles from the vaccination?

[resodko]

No.

i'm sorry

that was unkind of me


you're woefully uninformed and appear disinterested in correcting your ignorance


and i have no interest in continuing this with you

 

[elohiym]

This is from a textbook on clinical pediatric neurology:

Live-attenuated virus vaccines (measles, mumps, rubella, varicella, and oral poliomyelitis) produce a mild and harmless infection with subsequent immunity.​

When you vaccinate your child with a live-attenuated virus vaccine you are intentionally giving your child a measles infection. The claim the infection is "mild and harmless" is debatable; we have seen billions in vaccine injury damage awards paid to victims of those "mild and harmless" infections.

What kind of infection is a live attenuated measles virus producing? A measles infection! :duh: They claim mild and harmless, but out of the other side of their mouth they warn of low risks (not harmless).

 

[resodko]

boy it's hard not to mock you :chuckle:

 

[elohiym]

i'm sorry

that was unkind of me

It was also typical of you.

you're woefully uninformed and appear disinterested in correcting your ignorance

Instead of wasting more thread space with your pointless logical fallacies, you could have simply attempted to refute my claim with as many words.

and i have no interest in continuing this with you

Yet you keep coming back to make the pro-vax movement look rabid and deceitful. You're doing this for me for free? Thanks.

 

[elohiym]

You have not presented any reasonable argument. You seem to think that "attenuated virus" is identical to the measles virus. It us not? Do you know what a live attenuated virus is? Do you know why it conveys immunity to people who receive it?

How long are you going to continue the charade?

 

[resodko]

did you know that jet fuel can't burn hot enough to melt steel?

 

[elohiym]

boy it's hard not to mock you :chuckle:

It's certainly hard for you to argue with me. :chuckle:

 

[Zeke]

Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove a thing, Nori. For what it's worth I've never had a negative reaction to a vaccine (other than hating needles as a toddler) and I've never known anyone who's had a bad one, either. So, we're right back where we've started.

Anybody who opposes vaccines based on the (rare) negative reactions (some) people have to (some) vaccines is playing with fire. Someone who goes out on a limb as an anti-vax zealot is dangerously, horribly irresponsible.

Or we can just host a polio party and see who wants to jump in the pool first.

Then why does the biggest percentage of the money go for treatment? even in their own medical books plainly say the immune system is the cure for cancers, yet they only want to treat instead of cure.

You must be living in a bubble because there has been an increase of sick people in this country, mentally physically they are far worse than 50 years ago, except for 1% at the top and self healers, yet truck loads of money has done nothing to prevent it among the lower levels.

I don't take pills, and eat wild plants when in season, drink a gallon of distilled water almost every day and I am 59 and physically fit, water is the main source of health yet they chemically treat it! for reasons you seem to be in denial about, you related to Brian Williams? yet I agree propaganda is part of both sides, it's a 80/20 game.

 

[CabinetMaker]

How long are you going to continue the charade?

Until you understand the difference between an attenuated virus used in a vaccine and a wild virus. Everything you have said indicates that you do not understand the basics of immunology and are reacting out of ignorance. That is not an insult as ignorance simply means we don't something and we need to take the time to learn it.

 

[elohiym]

did you know that jet fuel can't burn hot enough to melt steel?

Did you know that vaccine strain measles virus infects naive (CD45RA(+)CD62L(+)) T lymphocytes, B lymphocytes, macrophages, and NK cells?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Then why does the biggest percentage of the money go for treatment? even in their own medical books plainly say the immune system is the cure for cancers, yet they only want to treat instead of cure.

You must be living in a bubble because there has been an increase of sick people in this country, mentally physically they are far worse than 50 years ago, except for 1% at the top and self healers, yet truck loads of money has done nothing to prevent it among the lower levels.

I don't take pills, and eat wild plants when in season, drink a gallon of distilled water almost every day and I am 59 and physically fit, water is the main source of health yet they chemically treat it! for reasons you seem to be in denial about, you related to Brian Williams? yet I agree propaganda is part of both sides, it's a 80/20 game.

Make sure the water you drink has sufficient minerals in it to keep you healthy. Water is the primary source of trace minerals required to maintain health.

 

[resodko]

Then why does the biggest percentage of the money go for treatment? even in their own medical books plainly say the immune system is the cure for cancers, yet they only want to treat instead of cure.

You must be living in a bubble because there has been an increase of sick people in this country, mentally physically they are far worse than 50 years ago, except for 1% at the top and self healers, yet truck loads of money has done nothing to prevent it among the lower levels.

I don't take pills, and eat wild plants when in season, drink a gallon of distilled water almost every day and I am 59 and physically fit, water is the main source of health yet they chemically treat it! for reasons you seem to be in denial about, you related to Brian Williams? yet I agree propaganda is part of both sides, it's a 80/20 game.

a healthy vigorous immune system is the best defense against most diseases

guess what?

there's a lot of people who don't have healthy vigorous immune systems, for many reasons

children, for example


back in the day, lots of them died, from complications from birth or in infancy


go to an old cemetery - there's one near where i live, has my great great great great grandfather and and his wives buried there - around their big headstone are a whole lot of little ones - children that died before adulthood. Lost in the grass are a dozen or so little flat markers with nothing but the date - apparently infant mortality was so common that they wouldn't christen a child until its first birthday

 

[resodko]

Did you know that vaccine strain measles virus infects naive (CD45RA(+)CD62L(+)) T lymphocytes, B lymphocytes, macrophages, and NK cells?

do you know the difference between a targeted infection of specific immune system cells and a systemic infection?


no, of course you don't

 

[elohiym]

Until you understand the difference between an attenuated virus used in a vaccine and a wild virus.

I do understand. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't. I can go back and quote all your false claims if you like. You claimed the virus was inactivated, just a part of the virus, etc. All false claims.

Everything you have said indicates that you do not understand the basics of immunology and are reacting out of ignorance.

I quoted a medical textbook and a scientific study both claiming that vaccine strain measles virus causes infection. It's apparent that you are the one at odds with facts and science.

That is not an insult as ignorance simply means we don't something and we need to take the time to learn it.

Then do take the time to learn it because you are the one who is ignorant.

 

[elohiym]

do you know the difference between a targeted infection of specific immune system cells and a systemic infection?

The difference isn't relevant if you agree in either case it's a measles infection. :duh:

 

[CabinetMaker]

I do understand. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't. I can go back and quote all your false claims if you like. You claimed the virus was inactivated, just a part of the virus, etc. All false claims.

*sigh* So you don't understand. Oh well.

I quoted a medical textbook and a scientific study both claiming that vaccine strain measles virus causes infection. It's apparent that you are the one at odds with facts and science.

It does not cause measles. It causes a low grade infection that triggers the bodies immune system to develop the anti bodies for the measles virus. A person who is vaccinated does not develop measles except in certain vary rare cases relative to the number of measles immunizations given.

Your claim that the measles vaccine gives people measles is grossly misleading, akin to yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater. You create the idea that there is an imminent threat where none exists. It is deceptive and evil of you.

Then do take the time to learn it because you are the one who is ignorant.

Urm, I did learn it. That is why I tell people who ask that vaccines are safe and effective and should be given unless there is some real and specific reason for not such as a compromised immune system. I don't go around telling people lies like vaccinations cause autism and the like. I honestly answer that vaccines are generally safe but that there are risks that should be discussed with a doctor who knows what he is doing.

 

[elohiym]

a healthy vigorous immune system is the best defense against most diseases

guess what?

You're going to say some stuff that is pointless.

there's a lot of people who don't have healthy vigorous immune systems, for many reasons

children, for example

Not only pointless, but a baseless generalization about children.

back in the day, lots of them died, from complications from birth or in infancy

The treatments and practices of physicians also killed people.

go to an old cemetery - there's one near where i live, has my great great great great grandfather and and his wives buried there - around their big headstone are a whole lot of little ones - children that died before adulthood. Lost in the grass are a dozen or so little flat markers with nothing but the date - apparently infant mortality was so common that they wouldn't christen a child until its first birthday

You blame that on children allegedly not having healthy and vigorous immune systems? Try malnutrition, war and economic hardship. They weren't suffering from a shortage of vaccinations.

 

[CabinetMaker]

The difference isn't relevant if you agree in either case it's a measles infection. :duh:

A measles infection is characterized by the following symptoms:

• Fever
• Dry cough
• Runny nose
• Sore throat
• Inflamed eyes (conjunctivitis)
• Tiny white spots with bluish-white centers on a red background found inside the mouth on the inner lining of the cheek — also called Koplik's spots
• A skin rash made up of large, flat blotches that often flow into one another

If a person does not display all of the symptoms they do not have measles.


Some people, after a measles my have some of the following symptoms:

• Runny or stuffy nose
• Itchy or sore throat
• Cough
• Congestion
• Slight body aches or a mild headache
• Sneezing
• Watery eyes
• Low-grade fever
• Mild fatigue

Given that those are the symptoms of the common cold, how do you tell the difference?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Not only pointless, but a baseless generalization about children.

Its actually right on point and an accurate observation. Babies are born with very week immune systems as they have not been exposed to anything. Small pox is a classic. A woman might have gotten and survived small pox but when her baby is born, the baby dies of small pox because immunization is not passed from mother to child in the womb.

Babies receive antibodies with breast milk. Why do they need vaccines if they already get this natural protection? During pregnancy, antibodies are transferred from mother to child. Further immune factors are received through breast milk, particularly in the early months of life. This maternal protection is a crucial support for the infant immune system during its development – but it does not cover everything. Mothers can pass on antibodies against diseases she herself has had in the past or those against which she has been vaccinated. Because antibodies are quickly degraded, the child is left without protection from 6-12 months after birth and also shortly after their mother discontinues breastfeeding. Also, antibodies against certain infectious – like whooping cough, for example – are not transferrable so the baby cannot depend on maternal antibodies for protection in all cases. Premature babies are particularly vulnerable as their immune systems are not well developed and they are less likely to have benefited from passive protection. Vaccines can be particularly beneficial for premature births. Passive immunity (from maternal antibodies) and vaccinations can complement one another. Children who are breastfed suffer less frequently from severe meningitis caused by Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) bacteria, and also produce more protective antibodies against these bacteria after receiving a Hib vaccine. There’s no need to choose between natural immunity and vaccine-induced protection. Both is best.

You blame that on children allegedly not having healthy and vigorous immune systems? Try malnutrition, war and economic hardship. They weren't suffering from a shortage of vaccinations.

Babies don't. The immunities of the mother do not pass through the placenta to the child. All of the things that you mention make life for those with little to no immune system harder and far more likely to be fatal.

 

[elohiym]

It causes a low grade infection...

An infection of what exactly?

Your claim that the measles vaccine gives people measles is grossly misleading, akin to yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater.

I have claimed that vaccinating a person with a live attenuated measles virus gives that person an infection of live attenuated measles virus. That is true. You're analogy fails.

You create the idea that there is an imminent threat where none exists. It is deceptive and evil of you.

Where have I claimed an imminent threat? I explained that you intentionally got infected with one strain of measles to prevent what you were led to believe would be a more dangerous measles infection from the wild strain. Characterizing that claim as deceptive and evil is deceptive and evil or you.

I honestly answer that vaccines are generally safe but that there are risks that should be discussed with a doctor who knows what he is doing.

I worked side-by-side with doctors for several years in the military. They understood the idea of measles vaccination is to get a mild measles infection to avoid a severe measles infection. You seem frightened by that idea, so much so that you refuse to believe that is what you consented to--a low grade measles infection.