How many people actually caught measles from the vaccination?

[elohiym]

Patient: What are the relative risks between the vaccination and the measles?

Too bad you can't answer the question. Meanwhile, I have answered the question as best I can regarding the risk of febrile seizures.

Your replies from either doctor are equally incomplete as each response reveals the doctors bias rather than an honest discussion of the relative risks.

Did your doctor have an honest discussion with you and your daughters about the relative risks of the MMR vs. natural measles infection? I doubt it.

 

[elohiym]

You have taken the first sentence out of context thus changing its meaning to suite your own ends.

First you claim the first sentence supports my position. Now you imply it doesn't. :doh:

My claim: The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate.

What do you disagree with in that claim?

That more research could be done does not alter the fact that the vaccine is effective.

You are again trying to separate the vaccine side effects from its role in preventing the target diseases. It's obvious you disagree with that portion of the author's conclusion. :chuckle:

 

[CabinetMaker]

Too bad you can't answer the question. Meanwhile, I have answered the question as best I can regarding the risk of febrile seizures.

So in your mind, your discussion of one potential side effect of the vaccine represents and exhaustive discussion of all the risks associated with being and not being vaccinated. Forgive me if I don't share your view.

Did your doctor have an honest discussion with you and your daughters about the relative risks of the MMR vs. natural measles infection? I doubt it.

We always knew that we would vaccinate our children. My wife, being a pharmacist, knows and understands the science behind vaccination. There were no family histories that would contra indicate vaccinations due to potential allergic reactions and we wanted to protect our kids against diseases both as children and as adults. Vaccinations were the right decision for that. I do recall the paperwork that we had to review and sign before the shots were administered. They listed the potential side effects and the likelihood of each. Suffice to say, there is nothing you have said in this thread that has caused me to second guess our decision. Nothing.

 

[CabinetMaker]

First you claim the first sentence supports my position. Now you imply it doesn't. :doh:

My claim: The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate.

What do you disagree with in that claim?

That by taking it out of context you are changing the meaning to make it sound as if that is the only thing the author states in his conclusion. It is not. I find your approach to be deceptive.

You are again trying to separate the vaccine side effects from its role in preventing the target diseases. It's obvious you disagree with that portion of the author's conclusion. :chuckle:

No, I am paraphrasing what the author said in his conclusion.

 

[elohiym]

That by taking it out of context you are changing the meaning to make it sound as if that is the only thing the author states in his conclusion. It is not.

I quoted the whole conclusion and highlighted the portion that is relevant to the safety of the vaccine.

I find your approach to be deceptive.

I find yours to be moronic.

No, I am paraphrasing what the author said in his conclusion.

Rather, you are doing what the author concluded one shouldn't do: separating the vaccine's side effects from its role in preventing the target diseases. The conclusion is a warning to you and those who think like you.

 

[elohiym]

Too bad you can't answer the question. Meanwhile, I have answered the question as best I can regarding the risk of febrile seizures.

So in your mind, your discussion of one potential side effect of the vaccine represents and exhaustive discussion of all the risks associated with being and not being vaccinated. Forgive me if I don't share your view.

My view is that you will not answer the question you asked because you are ignorant and lazy. When asked about the risk of febrile seizures from natural measles versus vaccine, I gave an answer and supported it with citations from the scientific literature.

Did your doctor have an honest discussion with you and your daughters about the relative risks of the MMR vs. natural measles infection? I doubt it.

We always knew that we would vaccinate our children. My wife, being a pharmacist, knows and understands the science behind vaccination. There were no family histories that would contra indicate vaccinations due to potential allergic reactions and we wanted to protect our kids against diseases both as children and as adults. Vaccinations were the right decision for that. I do recall the paperwork that we had to review and sign before the shots were administered. They listed the potential side effects and the likelihood of each.

So the answer to my question is no, your doctor did not have an honest discussion with you and your daughters about the relative risks of the MMR vs. natural measles infection.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I quoted the whole conclusion and highlighted the portion that is relevant to the safety of the vaccine.

Right. You took it out of context.

I find yours to be moronic.

Why? Simply because I disagree with you?

Rather, you are doing what the author concluded one shouldn't do: separating the vaccine's side effects from its role in preventing the target diseases. The conclusion is a warning to you and those who think like you.

Nobody is saying that there are not potential side effects from the vaccine. But I think that the author is saying that even given the side effects, the vaccine is effective at prevent diseases. Relative risks Elo. You keep ignoring the relative risks of the vaccine against the risks of a full on case of measles. You are focused on the risks of the vaccine.

 

[fzappa13]

Data counts. So the numbers matter a lot more than a person anecdote, yes.

May the day come that you embrace the notion that people matter more than numbers.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Because I've been reading the thread about no more personal choice exemptions for vaccinating children, I decided to as this question.

You see, I caught both measles and mumps from the vaccinations when I was a kid and gave them to both my sisters who had also been vaccinated. I know that was in the 70s. But, it's one reason why I'm leery of vaccinating children. The biggest reason that I stopped believing that vaccinations were a good thing is because my daughter's pediatrician tried to talk me into getting the chicken pox vaccine even though she had already had chicken pox and it was in her records that she had the disease. Since you're supposed to be immune from the disease once you have it, why would the doctor try to push the vaccination?

Here's a little girl, 5, who died of the very strain of flu she was recently vaccinated for this year.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/girl-5-dies-flu-strain-vaccinated-article-1.2091435

A five-year-old girl from the Las Vegas area died Tuesday after coming down with the strain of flu she had been vaccinated against earlier this year.

Kiera Driscoll started showing symptoms including a cough and fever on Jan. 18, according to KVVU. Her family took her to a walk-in clinic on Monday, and she was given a nebulizer and steroids.

However, Kiera collapsed later that day. Her mother performed CPR while they waited for the ambulance.

The little girl’s health worsened after she was hospitalized and she passed away on Tuesday from influenza A, her family said.

Kiera’s family said the spirited kindergartner had received her flu shot and did not have any underlying illnesses.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Data counts. So the numbers matter a lot more than a person anecdote, yes.

Fizzle fumes:

May the day come that you embrace the notion that people matter more than numbers.

It's precisely because people matter more than numbers, that one pays attention to the data. The fact is that fewer people die when they are immunized.

When people matter more to you than your ideological biases, you will understand why that matters.

 

[Rusha]

Barbarian observes:
Data counts. So the numbers matter a lot more than a person anecdote, yes.

It's precisely because people matter more than numbers, that one pays attention to the data. The fact is that fewer people die when they are immunized.

When people matter more to you than your ideological biases, you will understand why that matters.

Exactly.