How many people actually caught measles from the vaccination?

[elohiym]

So no response from you.

Keep pretending.

 

[resodko]

If hundreds of children die each year riding bicycles, should we ban bicycles?

ban them?

no

require children to ride them safely, for example, out of traffic and wearing helmets?

yes

 

[CabinetMaker]

Keep pretending.

Its your claim, you back it up. Whether you do or don't will reveal much about your true intentions.

 

[elohiym]

Brings up an interesting question about our responsibilities to our fellow man.

If hundreds of children die each year riding bicycles, should we ban bicycles?

Given that an accident riding a bicycle and a viral infection are not even remotely related...

You punt.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You're mistaken.

The fear is in you. It was your fear of a mild and harmless measles infection that allowed people to sell you an intentional infection of the same virus. They put a "measles party" in a bottle and convinced you it was safer for you than getting a natural measles infection. You fell for the sales pitch and brought your child to be intentionally infected despite the fact that "the design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate."

Its not fear to make an informed decision. Its fear when you spend so much time trying to discredit a proven vaccine that has prevented untold deaths.

 

[elohiym]

ban them?

no

Despite the deaths of children you still let children ride bikes. Those are preventable deaths.

require children to ride them safely, for example, out of traffic and wearing helmets?

yes

They still die.

 

[resodko]

everybody dies

 

[elohiym]

Its not fear to make an informed decision.

You obviously did not make an informed decision. The fact that you made several false statements about live attenuated viruses on this thread is enough evidence for me to know that you ignorantly vaccinated your children.

Its fear when you spend so much time trying to discredit a proven vaccine that has prevented untold deaths.

You have no evidence "it's fear."
You have no evidence it's "a proven vaccine."
You have no evidence it's "prevented untold deaths."

Here is a fact: The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You punt.

Actually, I pointed out that bicycle accidents and deaths from preventable diseases are not remotely analogous.

 

[CabinetMaker]

everybody dies

There are worse things than death.

 

[resodko]

like getting stuck in cincinnati?

 

[CabinetMaker]

You obviously did not make an informed decision. The fact that you made several false statements about live attenuated viruses on this thread is enough evidence for me to know that you ignorantly vaccinated your children.

What I said about attenuated vaccines I stand by. I was exceedingly careful to draw the distinction between a vaccine and a virus, a distinction that fail to make.

You have no evidence "it's fear."

Your vocal appeal to emotion to convince others to not vaccinate is evidence of your fear.

You have no evidence it's "a proven vaccine."

Such evidence has been repeatedly shown to you on this thread. There is evidence proven that vaccines work.

You have no evidence it's "prevented untold deaths."

Again, the data supporting this has been repeatedly offered in this thread.

Here is a fact: The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate.

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:

The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with the MMR vaccine cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases.

I have never said that vaccines are without risk, they are not. None the less, the author does conclude that the MMR vaccine does prevent the targeted diseases.

 

[CabinetMaker]

like getting stuck in cincinnati?

Or living in Detroit. Imagine riding a bike in Detroit.

 

[elohiym]

Actually, I pointed out that bicycle accidents and deaths from preventable diseases are not remotely analogous.

You don't even understand the point you punted.

 

[elohiym]

What I said about attenuated vaccines I stand by.

Then you stand behind several falsehoods.

I was exceedingly careful to draw the distinction between a vaccine and a virus ...

Your false statements were specifically about the live attenuated virus. At one point you were arguing it didn't cause an infection, was inactivated, etc.

a distinction that fail to make.

No. I clearly explained the difference between the attenuated virus and wild-type measles virus, even explained how the virus is attenuated. But keep pretending I didn't and maybe someone will believe you.

The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with the MMR vaccine cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases.

I have never said that vaccines are without risk, they are not. None the less, the author does conclude that the MMR vaccine does prevent the targeted diseases.

:doh: The conclusion was: "The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate." You believe and claim vaccines are safe and effective based on largely inadequate studies. Hello?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Then you stand behind several falsehoods.



Your false statements were specifically about the live attenuated virus. At one point you were arguing it didn't cause an infection, was inactivated, etc.



No. I clearly explained the difference between the attenuated virus and wild-type measles virus, even explained how the virus is attenuated. But keep pretending I didn't and maybe someone will believe you.

If you recall, my contention was the vaccine does not cause measles.

:doh: The conclusion was: "The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate." You believe and claim vaccines are safe and effective based on largely inadequate studies. Hello?

Since the first sentence of the authors conclusion supports your position and the second sentence of his conclusion weakens your position, I can see why you would choose to ignore the remainder of the conclusion.

 

[elohiym]

Patient: Is the MMR vaccine safe?

Doctor A: Yes. It is safe.

vs.

Doctor B: The vaccine can cause serious adverse reactions according to the drug package insert I've handed you to read, and our knowledge of its safety is based on largely inadequate studies.

Which is the honest doctor?
Which is the doctor you would go to?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Patient: Is the MMR vaccine safe?

Doctor A: Yes. It is safe.

vs.

Doctor B: The vaccine can cause serious adverse reactions according to the drug package insert I've handed you to read, and our knowledge of its safety is based on largely inadequate studies.

Which is the honest doctor?
Which is the doctor you would go to?

Patient: What are the relative risks between the vaccination and the measles?

Follow up question Elyo, follow up. Your replies from either doctor are equally incomplete as each response reveals the doctors bias rather than an honest discussion of the relative risks.

 

[elohiym]

If you recall, my contention was the vaccine does not cause measles.

So? The vaccine causes an infection with a live attenuated measles virus.

Since the first sentence of the authors conclusion supports your position ...

Yes, it does.

and the second sentence of his conclusion weakens your position...

No, it doesn't. That would be like saying the second sentence of the author weakens his first sentence, which it clearly doesn't. You apparently don't understand the conclusion.

... I can see why you would choose to ignore the remainder of the conclusion.

I don't, and agree that the side effects "cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases." Unfortunately, that is what you and others try to do, separate them, play one down and the other up.

 

[CabinetMaker]

So? The vaccine causes an infection with a live attenuated measles virus.



Yes, it does.



No, it doesn't. That would be like saying the second sentence of the author weakens his first sentence, which it clearly doesn't. You apparently don't understand the conclusion.



I don't, and agree that the side effects "cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases." Unfortunately, that is what you and others try to do, separate them, play one down and the other up.

You have taken the first sentence out of context thus changing its meaning to suite your own ends. That more research could be done does not alter the fact that the vaccine is effective.