How many people actually caught measles from the vaccination?

[Daedalean's_Sun]

For those of you with a genuine interest in the latest trends in vaccination ... the beat goes on:




http://www.naturalnews.com/048821_vaccine_database_Texas_legislation.html#

This is the level of misinformed paranoia I have come to expect from Wingnuts like Mike Adams.

The photo accompanying the article shows RFID chips alongside a hypodermic needle, as if that were even remotely what such a law concerns.


Mike Adams even goes on to say: "...if these Texas lawmakers get their way, every person living in Texas will be tracked like dogs with a government-run vaccine status database that will almost certainly be used to conduct house-to-house SWAT raids and arrests of those who refuse to be vaccinated"

That would be atrocious, and no reasonable person would support this. Fortunately that is not what was proposed.

Here is what the bill actually states:

"..establishing and maintaining a single repository of accurate, complete, and current immunization records..."

So in other words, it consolidates immunization records into a single repository, since immunization records are already something clinics keep anyway. The bill even makes provision to have one's records removed from the registry upon request.

Title of article: All Texans to be tracked like dogs under ominous Big Brother vaccine database legislation


I can see how one might confuse outrage media rife with unwarranted conjecture for journalism. NaturalNews.com is news in the same way that I am a loaf of bread.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

The complication of both infections are real and in rare cases can cause severe complications and death.

We are seeing the fact that wild-type measles is going to produce a stepwise fever 99.9% of the time and the vaccine will produce a fever 1 to 6% of the time, and you are saying "Ah, ha! See the vaccine causes fever too!"

 

[fzappa13]

The McDonald's of journalism, USA Today, offered this earlier this year:

Parents who do not vaccinate their children should go to jail.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...sles-disney-world-california-column/22420771/

 

[fzappa13]

Who could imagine
That they would freak out in washington, d.c.

Frank Zappa - It Can't Happen Here


http://psychrights.org/States/Maryland/Jailtimethreatsspurvaccinecompliance.pdf

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

The McDonald's of journalism, USA Today, offered this earlier this year:



http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...sles-disney-world-california-column/22420771/

That's an op-ed you dolt.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

No, SYMPTOMS, the wild-strain is always going to produce SYMPTOMS. Whether there are any complications from those symptoms is another matter. But catching measles is always going to give you symptoms, and one of those symptoms is a stepwise fever.

Always is highly inaccurate. That's like saying you never get the measles after immunization, natural or otherwise.

And when measles settles into the body in a subclinical setting, they become an unknown reserve for the virus.

There are things we do not know yet.

But we do know measles can be carried chronically in the tonsils of asymptomatic children.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/...34-4810&date=2002&volume=38&issue=4&spage=424

This is a virtual certainty, that does not exist with the vaccine.

Why play the maybe game?

Experts say the at-risk for vaccine failure are the immuno-compromised, the same ones we want to protect from deadly complications when they do get sick. People with healthy immune systems don't need a vaccine to protect them and sick people can't even use it.

Receiving a vaccine is not going to give you symptoms except under rare conditions

BabyCenter says you are wrong about that.

Mild reactions are fairly common. Up to 1 in 5 children gets a low fever, and 1 in 20 develops a mild rash. In rare cases, a child has swelling in the glands of his neck or cheeks.

We are seeing the fact that wild-type measles is going to produce a stepwise fever 99.9% of the time

Start at primary exposure. (the time of natural exposure is equivalent to vaccination) Not 99.9%. Prove it.

Secondary exposure is more like 90%, so primary would be even less, right?

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Always is highly inaccurate. That's like saying you never get the measles after immunization, natural or otherwise.

Not remotely. The failure rate of the vaccine is known. A small percentage of people will not produce anti-bodies in response to the first dose of the vaccine, and an even smaller percentage in response to the second dose.

Saying we get measles symptoms from measles is akin to saying you get flu symptoms from the flu, given that the symptoms are characteristic of the disease. You can have a virus present in the body, but unless you are exhibiting symptoms you don't have the disease, unless it is asymptomatic. With the vaccine strain, even those without an immunity won't exhibit symptoms because the virus is attenuated, with certain exceptions obviously.

There are things we do not know yet.

And one of them is not whether vaccines are effective. They are, unarguably.

Experts say the at-risk for vaccine failure are the immuno-compromised, the same ones we want to protect from deadly complications when they do get sick.

We want to protect everyone, not just from complications but from symptoms too.

People with healthy immune systems don't need a vaccine to protect them

"Before the introduction of measles vaccines, measles virus infected 95%–98% of children by age 18 years[1–4], and measles was considered an inevitable rite of passage."

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S4.full

and sick people can't even use it.

A vaccine is a preventative care. It doesn't do any good once you are already sick. Though I assume you mean those with weak immune systems, but this is false. Vulnerable populations include young children and the elderly, which vaccination has been proven to be effective in protecting. In fact, vaccination efforts have focused on these groups for precisely that reason.

BabyCenter says you are wrong about that.

Those are reactions, not symptoms. Even so, it is still abundantly clear that acquiring measles from other infected individuals produces much more harmful effects, and at a much greater rate than any that one would get from the vaccine. This too, is beyond dispute for any honest investigator.

 

[fzappa13]

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN)Police have arrested more than 500 parents in and around the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar for not allowing their children to get the polio vaccine, an official said Tuesday ... Those arrested will be released on bail if they sign an affidavit stating that they will let their children get vaccinated, according to the deputy commissioner.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/asia/...x.html?sr=tw030415poliovaccine1230pVODtopLink

Now why on earth would Pakistanis have a problem with vaccinating their kids?

http://therefusers.com/refusers-new...abies-with-their-5-in-1-vaccine/#.VPgp8eFU2Zg

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Now why on earth would Pakistanis have a problem with vaccinating their kids?

CIA Organised fake vaccination drive to get Osama bin Laden's family DNA

 

[1PeaceMaker]

"Before the introduction of measles vaccines, measles virus infected 95%–98% of children by age 18 years[1–4], and measles was considered an inevitable rite of passage."

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S4.full

That was because of measles parties. Attempts at isolating cases would have kept it from spreading.

Imagine how many fewer measles cases we would have had back then if people treated it like the black death. We didn't vaccinate that disease out of existence, but people don't spread it around anymore, despite it being highly contagious.

I assume you mean those with weak immune systems, but this is false.

That's dangerously misguided. We don't pre-screen for immunodeficiency (the sickness that makes even healthy appearing individuals vulnerable) but the CDC warns that you are wrong.

 

[fzappa13]

Experts say the at-risk for vaccine failure are the immuno-compromised, the same ones we want to protect from deadly complications when they do get sick. People with healthy immune systems don't need a vaccine to protect them and sick people can't even use it.

Right you are ...

Physicians and public health officials know that recently vaccinated individuals can spread disease and that contact with the immunocompromised can be especially dangerous. For example, the Johns Hopkins Patient Guide warns the immunocompromised to "Avoid contact with children who are recently vaccinated," and to "Tell friends and family who are sick, or have recently had a live vaccine (such as chicken pox, measles, rubella, intranasal influenza, polio or smallpox) not to visit."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/048863_v...breaks_vaccinated_children.html#ixzz3TYlJ2Bi7


http://www.naturalnews.com/048863_vaccine_propaganda_disease_outbreaks_vaccinated_children.html

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Still a bit puzzled as to why you seem to think NaturalNews.com is a credible source. :liberals:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Still a bit puzzled as to why you seem to think NaturalNews.com is a credible source. :liberals:

Still puzzled as to why you make claims and then forget about them when shown you are wrong.

Got a problem with the advice from the Johns Hopkins Patient Guide or something?

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Right you are ...



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/048863_v...breaks_vaccinated_children.html#ixzz3TYlJ2Bi7


http://www.naturalnews.com/048863_vaccine_propaganda_disease_outbreaks_vaccinated_children.html

Seems like useful information at a glance.

I've seen misinformation from natural news before but sometimes there's truthful and helpful reporting there. Same for any other news website I've seen. I don't know why DS expects a media website to be flawless.

Nobody seems above mistakes not a news anchor, not even a doctor.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

That was because of measles parties.

It doesn't matter why. Your claim is false regardless of the reason.

We didn't vaccinate that disease out of existence, but people don't spread it around anymore, despite it being highly contagious.

The disease (or rather diseases) still exists in parts of the world. It's spread across Europe was was halted by a number of factors that aren't applicable to measles.

That's dangerously misguided. We don't pre-screen for immunodeficiency (the sickness that makes even healthy appearing individuals vulnerable) but the CDC warns that you are wrong.

Utter hogwash!

Having a weak immune system is not the same as having an immunodeficiency disorder. Let's not equivocate here.

Unless you want to argue that all the 147,000 people that died from measles in 2013 all had an immunodeficiency disorders, your statement is false.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That was because of measles parties.

And children died and you give every impression of not caring that they did.

 

[elohiym]

CIA Organised fake vaccination drive to get Osama bin Laden's family DNA

Obviously the U.S. government will use vaccination initiatives as a cover for covert operations and showed no concern for the Pakistani children that were abused by U.S. agents.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Got a problem with the advice from the Johns Hopkins Patient Guide or something?

No, I have a problem with your misrepresentation thereof. No one is asserting that healthy people don't need protection from measles, except you.

And if any reject the advice of John Hopkins, it is not me:

http://hub.jhu.edu/2015/02/05/measles-vaccine-symposium-public-health

http://hub.jhu.edu/2015/02/03/measles-outbreak-anti-vaccine-movement

They have publicly rebuked the anti-vaccine movement.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Obviously the U.S. government will use vaccination initiatives as a cover for covert operations and showed no concern for the Pakistani children that were abused by U.S. agents.

That is a whole other can of worms, unless you want to argue that vaccination stateside is also part of a covert operation (I think fzappa13 might ).

 

[elohiym]

The complication of both infections are real and in rare cases can cause severe complications and death.

We are seeing the fact that wild-type measles is going to produce a stepwise fever 99.9% of the time and the vaccine will produce a fever 1 to 6% of the time...

You are mistaken. According to the CDC, the MMRV vaccine will produce a fever 20% of the time.

"Fever (about 1 child out of 5)."​

The measles vaccine used in the early study I cited previously in this thread had much higher rates of fever.

Since your interest in fever has to do with my point regarding febrile seizure incidence, why don't you just address my argument about febrile seizure rates (vaccine vs. natural infection) made (link>) here?