How Jesus Justifies the Ungodly, Romans 4:5.

[Nanja]

Anyone that believes that God predestinates people to hell before they are born, also believes that God is unjust.

That's simply your own carnal opinion of God 1 Cor. 2:14.


God Himself declares that He is Just in all His Ways:

Deut. 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment [Justice]: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Is. 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Ps. 145:17
The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.


Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

There is no evidence in scripture that God Loves any outside of His Chosen Ones Eph. 1:4-5; Deut. 7:6-7.

For example, He denied the vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22 to be part of His Election of Grace. And neither did Christ the Lamb shed any blood for them, so they will never be given new birth; neither had their names been written in The Lamb's Book of Life Rev. 13:8.

Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

 

[God's Truth]

You are confused. Jesus is the savior, he is the one that provides salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

You are the sinner that needs to be saved. You seem to believe that you have something to do with your salvation. Your obedience, which Isaiah said are filthy rags.

You are ensnared to say what the devil wants you to say and to make it as if Isaiah is in on it.

It is never ever filthy to obey Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.

hahahahahahaha Robert Pate, you use the Calvinists version of that scripture.

 

[Robert Pate]

That's simply your own carnal opinion of God 1 Cor. 2:14.


God Himself declares that He is Just in all His Ways:

Deut. 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment [Justice]: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Is. 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Ps. 145:17
The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.


Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

There is no evidence in scripture that God Loves any outside of His Chosen Ones Eph. 1:4-5; Deut. 7:6-7.

For example, He denied the vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22 to be part of His Election of Grace. And neither did Christ the Lamb shed any blood for them, so they will never be given new birth; neither had their names been written in The Lamb's Book of Life Rev. 13:8.

Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

You are in denial of the truth.

Just because you say that your Calvinist God is Just, does not make him just.

Anyway that you slice it, Calvinism is the belief that God is unjust. You just cannot accept it. Just like you cannot accept the fact that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

So you remain in darkness and refuse to come to the light, John 3:19.

 

[Robert Pate]

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.

hahahahahahaha Robert Pate, you use the Calvinists version of that scripture.

I didn't say that your righteousness was filthy rags. I was just quoting God's prophet, Isaiah, 64:6.

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't say that your righteousness was filthy rags. I was just quoting God's prophet, Isaiah, 64:6.

You were misusing the filthy rag scripture THE SAME WAY the Calvinists do! haaaahahaaa

 

[Nanja]

You are in denial of the truth.

Just because you say that your Calvinist God is Just, does not make him just.

Anyway that you slice it, Calvinism is the belief that God is unjust. You just cannot accept it. Just like you cannot accept the fact that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

So you remain in darkness and refuse to come to the light, John 3:19.

You aren't able to comprehend The Light Is. 8:20; Eph. 4:18!


I believe nothing but the Truth as it's found in the scriptures 2 Tim. 3:16!

God Words declare He is Just, and I Believe Him!


And, yes Christ Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole World of God's Elect, Chosen of the Father In Union with Christ before the world began.

Eph. 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

2 Tim. 1:8-9
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Rom. 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[Robert Pate]

You aren't able to comprehend The Light Is. 8:20; Eph. 4:18!


I believe nothing but the Truth as it's found in the scriptures 2 Tim. 3:16!

God Words declare He is Just, and I Believe Him!


And, yes Christ Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole World of God's Elect, Chosen of the Father In Union with Christ before the world began.

Eph. 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

2 Tim. 1:8-9
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Rom. 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The elect are those that have elected to believe in Jesus as their savior, John 3:16.

No one is saved in the New Testament that does not believe and have faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

The Bible does not teach Calvinism. What it does teach is salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Nanja]

The elect are those that have elected to believe in Jesus as their savior, John 3:16.

No one is saved in the New Testament that does not believe and have faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

The Bible does not teach Calvinism. What it does teach is salvation by grace through faith.

You relentlessly preach a false gospel of works a person does to get himself saved.


The World of the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5 were chosen In Union with Christ to be holy and without blame before Him in Love John 3:16 before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7; already Saved before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9. And the Faith given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22 is the evidence and assurance of their Election in Christ!

 

[beloved57]

The elect are those that have elected to believe in Jesus as their savior, John 3:16.

No one is saved in the New Testament that does not believe and have faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

The Bible does not teach Calvinism. What it does teach is salvation by grace through faith.

False Teaching !

 

[Robert Pate]

You relentlessly preach a false gospel of works a person does to get himself saved.


The World of the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5 were chosen In Union with Christ to be holy and without blame before Him in Love John 3:16 before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7; already Saved before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9. And the Faith given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22 is the evidence and assurance of their Election in Christ!

Faith and believe are not works. Do you really believe that God sent his only begotten Son into the world and no one is supposed to believe and have faith in him? The words "believe' and "faith" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. You are in darkness.

 

[Nanja]

Faith and believe are not works. Do you really believe that God sent his only begotten Son into the world and no one is supposed to believe and have faith in him? The words "believe' and "faith" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. You are in darkness.

Wrong, they are works!


The kind of faith that a natural man does in his own mind is a work of the flesh that cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV&ss=1


The Faith that pleases God is a fruit and gift of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8.

Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[God's Truth]

Pate and Nanja fighting over who obeys God the least.

The Calvinists win on that one, but it makes Pate more guilty.

 

[Robert Pate]

Wrong, they are works!


The kind of faith that a natural man does in his own mind is a work of the flesh that cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV&ss=1


The Faith that pleases God is a fruit and gift of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8.

Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If they are works then why do all of the apostles and even Jesus himself encourage us to believe and have faith in him?

You remain in darkness.

 

[Nanja]

If they are works then why do all of the apostles and even Jesus himself encourage us to believe and have faith in him?

You remain in darkness.

Who is the "us" you are referring to?

We know from scripture that the only Faith / Believing that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

But, those in the flesh / carnal, the natural man 1 Cor 2:14 cannot please God Rom. 8:8 by their own believing / faith because it's a work [ergon] of the mind:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV&ss=1

And Salvation is not of works Eph. 2:9!

 

[Robert Pate]

Who is the "us" you are referring to?

We know from scripture that the only Faith / Believing that pleases God is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

But, those in the flesh / carnal, the natural man 1 Cor 2:14 cannot please God Rom. 8:8 by their own believing / faith because it's a work [ergon] of the mind:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV&ss=1

And Salvation is not of works Eph. 2:9!

The us is anyone that wants to be saved.

You have yet to address the thousands of Jews that heard and believed Peter's Gospel on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Some of which participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:36.

Were those people that nailed Jesus to the cross God's people?

 

[Nanja]

The us is anyone that wants to be saved.

You have yet to address the thousands of Jews that heard and believed Peter's Gospel on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Some of which participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:36.

Were those people that nailed Jesus to the cross God's people?

God has already Saved all His Election of Grace in Christ before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9: His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23.

Listen, Salvation never depended on what a person does or does not do, because all the sins that God's Children Eph. 1:4-5 would ever commit in time were imputed to Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22; Rev. 13:8; Heb. 13:20 from Everlasting instead of them Is. 53:6; Rom. 4:6-8. That's Eternal Justification / Salvation!

 

[Robert Pate]

God has already Saved all His Election of Grace in Christ before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9: His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23.

Listen, Salvation never depended on what a person does or does not do, because all the sins that God's Children Eph. 1:4-5 would ever commit in time were imputed to Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22; Rev. 13:8; Heb. 13:20 from Everlasting instead of them Is. 53:6; Rom. 4:6-8. That's Eternal Justification / Salvation!

Your Calvinist doctrine is self defeating.

It requires that you believe that God is unjust and is a tyrant.

It also requires you to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord because he did not atone for the sins of the whole world.

Both of these beliefs are evidence that you don't have faith in God or his Son Jesus Christ.

You are lost.

 

[Nanja]

Your Calvinist doctrine is self defeating.

It only appears that way to those, such as yourself, who are is disbelief of the Truth of the scriptures 2 Tim. 3:16 because of the blindness of their heart / mind Eph. 4:18!

 

[Robert Pate]

It only appears that way to those, such as yourself, who are is disbelief of the Truth of the scriptures 2 Tim. 3:16 because of the blindness of their heart / mind Eph. 4:18!

HOGWASH!

Here is a question for you.

If God has ALREADY reconciled you and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. then why do you need to be predestinated?