How I KNOW it is God's will to heal all who desire it
- Thread starter Totton Linnet
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He has healed a darn sight more of them since the healing provision of the cross began to be preached. You can only believe what is preached, you can only receive what you believe of what is preached.
For everyone who preaches "by His stripes we are healed" there are 10, 000 who preach it is not so.
musterion
Well-known member
So God's willingness, if not His ability, to physically heal a believer ultimately depends on the power of that believer's faith and how doube-minded he is or isn't at the moment he asks?
That's what Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland, et al taught, is it not?
Doesn't that make God manipulable? Isn't that kinda like witchcraft, or voodoo?
That's what Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland, et al taught, is it not?
Doesn't that make God manipulable? Isn't that kinda like witchcraft, or voodoo?
OCTOBER23
New member
You can only believe what is preached - NO.
What is Written - YES
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You have a Little Dunamis = a little Miraculous Power.
Revelation 3:8 ... for thou hast a little strength,
Revelation 3:8 ... for <3754> thou hast <2192> (5719) a little <3398> strength <1411>,
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1411 δύναμις dunamis doo’-nam-is
from 1410;
AV-power 77, mighty work 11, strength 7, miracle
1) strength power, ability
1b) power for performing miracles
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WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN A LITTLE MIRACULOUS POWER.
What is Written - YES
--------------------------------------
You have a Little Dunamis = a little Miraculous Power.
Revelation 3:8 ... for thou hast a little strength,
Revelation 3:8 ... for <3754> thou hast <2192> (5719) a little <3398> strength <1411>,
------------------------------
1411 δύναμις dunamis doo’-nam-is
from 1410;
AV-power 77, mighty work 11, strength 7, miracle
1) strength power, ability
1b) power for performing miracles
----------------------------------------------------------
WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN A LITTLE MIRACULOUS POWER.
musterion
Well-known member
Healing from sin and ultimately from damnation is what's guaranteed, not from physical sickness. If it were as you say...Trophimus, Miletus, Timothy...oh, right...they're just gnats so you can ignore them. How convenient these Bible passages are mere gnats you can shoo away.
Paul was in chains, facing death. The context isn't healing, but Paul is explaining God's priority concerning Paul's life, especially the immediacy of his death...
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Not only is God concerned about Paul's death, Paul is concerned about his death, and calls it gain, just as his life is Christ. Both are good things. Again, BOTH are good things. Death, for the Christian, is a 'good' thing.
Php 1:22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.
Both again. One is good for Paul, in his mind. He believes not only that he is an alien, in this life, but that death is better! Paul is explaining a priority and importance of this life, that both God and he embrace: That death and life are both good, for different reasons.
Php 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
Even to the point where dying is 'far' better.
Php 1:24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.
So, for Paul, the flesh is important, because of the need of others, especially as an Apostle.
Because it is better to be with Christ, there are times God says "no, this death is better."
Not all sickness leads to death, and our bodies are adapted to heal. God does do miraculous healing today and often to enable a saint to go about his/her Master's business. He does love us and is concerned with our infirmities, but it is clear in scripture God healed and other times didn't according to His own counsel, sometimes revealed in clarity. There are a lot of good reasons why God would use a sickness or infirmity for His glory. Remember Joseph's tribulations? Remember Job's trials and long-lasting disease?
We are aliens and strangers in this land. The healing of these temporal bodies is of little consequence in light of much much more important matters of faith and life. Imo, God heals as He desires and is not at my beckoned call. Faith does not 'manipulate' God. It appeals to His graces and I do not believe it is always best that we or another are healed.
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves.
Joh 6:27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."
When Jesus explained they they weren't looking for Him, but health and wealth (food) and that He was not going to give it to them, then this verse:
Joh 6:66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.
This is the danger of heath, wealth, and prosperity denominations, they are looking for matters of the flesh, and missing the Christ.
| I'd rather have Jesus | |
You may disagree, but please 'try' and see that Christ-honoring theology and scriptures drive the disagreement. I'm not dogmatic to shove it down your throat, but I believe it is scripturally substantial and embracing the sentiments of God concerning our health.[/QUOTE]
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I do not like long posts, the fault is mine. But I also consider with Paul that to depart and be with Christ is better.
YOU say God sometimes healed and sometimes did not..then show it in the ministry of Christ who was God in the flesh. Or else it is a chance deal, God would be fickle...acting no doubt according to the mood He is in.
God works according to eternal counsels. He decided in eternity what He would do about sin, and sickness is a curse, it came upon mankind because of sin in the garden. He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God. He became the curse for cursed is everyone who hangs on tree.
If He bore our sickness and carried our diseases then how come you are carrying them?
Paul explains what his thorn in the flesh was....I have already shown it. In the gospels nobody glorified God with their sickness, they glorified Him with their healing.
Nowhere does Christ show it is dishonouring to Him to ask for healing...where do Christians get such ideas...He was DIShonoured by the people's lack of faith.
How long is He to bear with this unbelieving and adulterous generation?
Jesus REPROVED them for not seeking Him for the meat which endureth to eternal life...He said "you seek Me because you ate bread"
The bread perishes but the power that PRODUCED the bread is the meat which endureth unto eternal life. Get your eyes off the bread, set your eyes on the miracle which produced the bread.
He said "You seek Me NOT because you saw miracles" it is a reproof, He said "you seek Me because ye ate bread"
You are being wily aren't you? what do you mean you'd rather have Jesus?
Oh such spirituality overwhelms my soul.
Which Jesus is that then? is there a Jesus in the gospels I haven't read about? who said "Go thy way and be sick, glorify Me by limping to church on crutches everyone will know how spiritual you are and I will be glorified" There I only one Christ in the bible
Deny outright that the Christ of the bible ALWAYS healed ALL the people when they believed on Him.
I know of no Christ nor any God who is not miraculous. The salvation of the cross is done by a miraculous transaction.
YOU, you pray when you get sick or when a loved one gets sick, you rush to the doctors...you are just as mindful of the flesh as the charismatics. You scratch and scrape to build yourself a nice little nest egg too. Seems like you invest a great deal of your time on health and wealth.
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It is not Hagin and co, especially it is not Kenyon.
Imma saying it depends on the gospel that is preached. The GOOD news IS the power of God unto salvation.
And actually Hagin and co carry on your freewill theology, it is the same theology YOU believe concerning salvation. They carry it through to miracle ministry where the falsity of the theology at once becomes apparent.
For if you ask people to "decide for Christ" for salvation and 100 people say "I will" you say 100 people got saved...who's to know? but when you say to 100 come to be healed and 100 come forward, it shows at once that 100 do not get healed.
I am OPPOSED to that kind of theology
OCTOBER23
New member
Exodus 15:24 And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink?
Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
WHO WAS GOD TALKING TO ????
HE was only talking to the HEBREWS and NOT Christians.
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It is up to God to Heal Christians when we Pray for Healing.
Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
WHO WAS GOD TALKING TO ????
HE was only talking to the HEBREWS and NOT Christians.
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It is up to God to Heal Christians when we Pray for Healing.
Then believe what is written and then preach it. I have zero power.
We are not said to be saved from damnation, however true that may be. But Jesus saves us from our sin. Sin and sickness go together.
Well you treat the overwhelming weight of testimony in the gospels and the epistles and treat them as gnats.
We are made heirs and partakers of all their promises [yet apart from the law and ordinances] through Christ...ALL the promises of the bible belong to us.
Word based mystic
New member
musterion and october.
you can do your doctrinal dance of unbelieving.
so you can excuse yourself from
1 john 5:14This is the confidence which we have [a]before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
It does not eliminate or dismiss the scriptures.
Like this timeless scripture that is not a cessationist scripture.
Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues; 18they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
disciples could not cast out demon but father said i believe help mine unbelief.
(yes it can be contingent on certain conditions or lack of faith).
many times jesus rebuked the disciples for not having full faith for a scenario.
And some were dealt with through much prayer and fasting.
YOU ALL see it as a magic wand that in the past was waved for healings. Yet throughout scriptures healings were often worked out through continual prayers or attempts.
Jesus himself had to attempt twice with the man whose eyes were healed.
Even Jesus grew in grace and knowledge. Mark 8:24
Most of you have developed your doctrinal beliefs in this area from your experiences or lack of experiences. Sad.
my 35 years as a believer started out with believing the scriptures as applicable for all believers and that all things are possible as we pray for His will be done. Fellow believers I walked with during those years now elders see the same healings. Especially as they go to new people groups as missionaries.
You do a disservice by preaching a gospel of impotence for the believers as they colabor with Christ.
John 14:12 is another very powerful timeless principle
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. 13"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.…
once again for those who believe not just a small group or time sensitive principle.
So my question is Do you believe?
james 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
I and others in our fellowship, especially our young adults see much increase in faith and healing. We do not need to promote ourselves and we encourage each other not to emphasize the miraculous. But rather be impressed with a mans character and love, gentleness, kindness, righteousness and the like.
you can do your doctrinal dance of unbelieving.
so you can excuse yourself from
1 john 5:14This is the confidence which we have [a]before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
It does not eliminate or dismiss the scriptures.
Like this timeless scripture that is not a cessationist scripture.
Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues; 18they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
disciples could not cast out demon but father said i believe help mine unbelief.
(yes it can be contingent on certain conditions or lack of faith).
many times jesus rebuked the disciples for not having full faith for a scenario.
And some were dealt with through much prayer and fasting.
YOU ALL see it as a magic wand that in the past was waved for healings. Yet throughout scriptures healings were often worked out through continual prayers or attempts.
Jesus himself had to attempt twice with the man whose eyes were healed.
Even Jesus grew in grace and knowledge. Mark 8:24
Most of you have developed your doctrinal beliefs in this area from your experiences or lack of experiences. Sad.
my 35 years as a believer started out with believing the scriptures as applicable for all believers and that all things are possible as we pray for His will be done. Fellow believers I walked with during those years now elders see the same healings. Especially as they go to new people groups as missionaries.
You do a disservice by preaching a gospel of impotence for the believers as they colabor with Christ.
John 14:12 is another very powerful timeless principle
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. 13"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.…
once again for those who believe not just a small group or time sensitive principle.
So my question is Do you believe?
james 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
I and others in our fellowship, especially our young adults see much increase in faith and healing. We do not need to promote ourselves and we encourage each other not to emphasize the miraculous. But rather be impressed with a mans character and love, gentleness, kindness, righteousness and the like.
musterion
Well-known member
Romans 5:8-9.
Untrue. We just don't pretend they were written to or about us when they plainly were not. We do not dismiss any part of God's Word as 'gnats.' Such is, at the very least, irreverent.
Right Divider
Body part
Then you should be clearing out all of the hospitals and raising the dead.
Mat 10:8 KJV Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Is your faith weak?
musterion
Well-known member
That's just another of them pesky gnats, RD.
atrol:
And you should be clearing out the booze halls and the massage parlours, preaching to every creature. Don't you believe in salvation from sin? see how that works?
I am advocating that when the gospel IS preached, wherever it is preached, the FULL gospel ought to be preached.
"Behold all power in heaven and on earth is given unto Me, goye therefore and preach the good news to every creature. These signs will follow them that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover, in My name they shall cast out devils......"
Paul raised only one person from the dead so far as we know, Peter only one.
That mean Paul was a charlatan?
How can we know what gospel Paul preached, we have only a couple of half sermons preached by him. We can know by the assemblies he planted.
The body of Christ was not a mystical heavenly body when Paul planted it. It was a body with members which did function.
There were gifts, gifts of healing and deliverance, gifts of prophecy, one had the gift of tongues another member the gift of interpretation one body with many members but each member had a spiritual function.
The church today is the body of Christ and it even functions with gifts such as word of knowledge/word of wisdom.
See the gifts of the Holy Spirit were exactly the same in nature as the ministry of Christ in His earthly body at Nazareth or Caperneum...again the gifts listed at Corinth in the body of Christ there were the same as the gifts shown in Jerusalem by Peter and the gang. What God did among the Jews He also did among the Gentiles.
It is the manifestation of Christ arisen from the dead and dwelling in His body the church.
The body of Christ still does manifest a few of the gifts...if folk believed for them all and earnestly desired the greater gifts as Paul exhorted us to desire them then those gifts would be manifest.
You only get sick and/or die if you are double-minded? Only the single-minded people remain physically healthy?
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