How I KNOW it is God's will to heal all who desire it

[aikido7]

lots of people set their faith for salvation on their knowledge.

yet they don't (comprehend)

Some people know (about) Jesus but don't (know) Jesus.

Some people set their doctrine but what they don't know or experience.

some verify the scriptures by walking in relationship and experience.

Which are you.

Knowledge puffs up.
Love has action that believes all things are possible for (those) who believe.

I will wait till I see Jesus face to face, then I will no longer pursue the spiritual gifs.

Knowledge puffs up when the one to whom it is directed puts themselves down and acts like a victim of some elite intelligent person.

Stop doing the victim thing and stand up for yourself. You are perfectly able to reply to others without feeling down.

 

[Lon]

lots of people set their faith for salvation on their knowledge.

yet they don't (comprehend)

Some people know (about) Jesus but don't (know) Jesus.

Some people set their doctrine but what they don't know or experience.

some verify the scriptures by walking in relationship and experience.

Which are you.

Knowledge puffs up.
Love has action that believes all things are possible for (those) who believe.

I will wait till I see Jesus face to face, then I will no longer pursue the spiritual gifs.

:think: John 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
Matthew 22:37

 

[Totton Linnet]

***



I do not like long posts, the fault is mine. But I also consider with Paul that to depart and be with Christ is better.



YOU say God sometimes healed and sometimes did not..then show it in the ministry of Christ who was God in the flesh. Or else it is a chance deal, God would be fickle...acting no doubt according to the mood He is in.



God works according to eternal counsels. He decided in eternity what He would do about sin, and sickness is a curse, it came upon mankind because of sin in the garden. He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God. He became the curse for cursed is everyone who hangs on tree.



If He bore our sickness and carried our diseases then how come you are carrying them?



Paul explains what his thorn in the flesh was....I have already shown it. In the gospels nobody glorified God with their sickness, they glorified Him with their healing.



Nowhere does Christ show it is dishonouring to Him to ask for healing...where do Christians get such ideas...He was DIShonoured by the people's lack of faith.



How long is He to bear with this unbelieving and adulterous generation?



Jesus REPROVED them for not seeking Him for the meat which endureth to eternal life...He said "you seek Me because you ate bread"



The bread perishes but the power that PRODUCED the bread is the meat which endureth unto eternal life. Get your eyes off the bread, set your eyes on the miracle which produced the bread.



He said "You seek Me NOT because you saw miracles" it is a reproof, He said "you seek Me because ye ate bread"



You are being wily aren't you? what do you mean you'd rather have Jesus?



Oh such spirituality overwhelms my soul.



Which Jesus is that then? is there a Jesus in the gospels I haven't read about? who said "Go thy way and be sick, glorify Me by limping to church on crutches everyone will know how spiritual you are and I will be glorified" There I only one Christ in the bible



Deny outright that the Christ of the bible ALWAYS healed ALL the people when they believed on Him.



I know of no Christ nor any God who is not miraculous. The salvation of the cross is done by a miraculous transaction.



YOU, you pray when you get sick or when a loved one gets sick, you rush to the doctors...you are just as mindful of the flesh as the charismatics. You scratch and scrape to build yourself a nice little nest egg too. Seems like you invest a great deal of your time on health and wealth.

People would get better if the full gospel were preached? [/QUOTE]

 

[Totton Linnet]

People believe that their sins were transferred miraculously to Christ who bore them away at the cross. That is what the doctors of the reformation taught, the preachers preach it and God is pleased to confirm it imparting faith.

Himself bare our sins in His own body on the tree that we being dead unto sin might live unto righteousness.

The doctors might just as easily have taught that people's sicknesses and diseases were miraculously transferred to Christ who bore them away on the cross. The preachers would preach that and God would be pleased to confirm it, imparting faith.

Himself bare our sicknesses and carried our diseases.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The PROOF of the gospel that Paul preached is in the assemblies he planted all over the Greco-Asian world that it is the same gospel outlined by Christ "these signs will follow them that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover,in My name they will cast out devils, they will speak in new tongues.....

These are the things we see Paul's churches doing. As they did in Jerusalem so they did in Galatia

 

[Totton Linnet]

My sickness was sin, my disease was death. Are you not interested in loaves and fishes? Why do you care if I have a cold or not? Why do you care if I have cancer or not? Isn't flesh[ly]? I don't like being sick, but Romans 8 says creation is subjected to futility.
This is fatalism, why not simply sit on your dust and wait to die...

No need to hammer it over and over. We disagree.
Not satisfactory, Paul explains what the thorn in the fleh was, not sickness but a messenger of Satan, an evil angel who stirred up tumult everywhere Paul went.


This confuses prayers with answers. Practically, we both pray for healing, and the healing of others. As a matter of fact, the answers to those prayers are exactly the same across board. You and I are rather arguing about interpretation of that data. I 'think' I'm seeing genuine results better than you.
Is it more honourable to et answers to prayer or not? upon what do you base your prayer of faith on? James say the prayer of faith will save the sick man

Pointed? :think: Did you mean to be this vilifying?

I would never vilify you dearest Lon...I think you far wrong in this matter

Are you not seeing one of these is about being in Christ and the other is concerned with the flesh?
:idunno: I might have said the same thing to you. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. Bread and healing feed the flesh, are interested in the flesh. I have nerve endings, so I am interested somewhat in my flesh, but I tend to pray about much more important matters. I do pray for flesh, in the sense that we have to function in it.
This is false spirituality, while we are in the flesh we care about the flesh...you are as grumpy as heck when you have your colds etc...so it is a spiritual problem too


The miracle is our spirit is no longer enslaved to sin and death. It is Spiritual. Flesh is a functionality, it is not me.
Sickness is death, don't you understand that?

I am a great lover of Spurgeon, he was one of those who preached that sickness was a chastisement, a purifier of the spirit....he was as often out of the pulpit sick as he was in it doing the work of God, his life was cut short by sickness.

Where does this doctrine come from?

I want you to show me one instance of Christ imparting sickness upon any who came to Him, I want you to show me one person He sent away with the idea that sickness is God's will for them...you can't and in all honesty it ought to close your argument. For we go by the truth as it is in Jesus.


Just that I "don't care if God says 'yes' or 'no'" regarding my healing. I have Him, it is enough. I don't like being sick, but as long as I have Him, it isn't of huge consequence to me. If I need to do something for His glory, I will pray and believe He will heal me.
That is a careless way to pray Lon, I admonish you...you do not deserve an answer to prayer with such a couldn't care less attitude





Incredibly marginalizing. I simply said a preoccupation with the flesh, is a mind interested in the flesh. Did you mean to push it beyond the idea that I think it is flesh-interested like seeking loaves and fishes? You need those too. I'm not saying don't pray, never suggested it. I'm saying sometimes God's answers are 'no.' It 'looks' like you are making this into an essential issue of salvation, and if I'm not of a Charismatic mindset, I'm going to hell, serving a different God and Jesus, etc. If that's not the case, I'd like to see you respond appropriately. I have always assumed such isn't the case between us or our assessments of each other, but these marginalizing sentiments are of concern.
I am beginning to think you are a Hindoo, Jesus was concerned. He said "the people have been with Me in this place for 3 days..." Jesus cared
I'm not preoccupied with either. My hopes are beyond the material. These others are a means to an end, incidental to the Christian life. They are anecdotes, support actors, behind-the-scenes concerns. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. God is concerned with peripherals, but they are peripherals.

When Matthew 6 closes, it says these too will be added, 'as if' they are acknowledged as the opening act, the support peripheral, or the things that take a back seat to spiritual matters.

The gospel way is "seek ye FIRST the kingdom of heaven and ALL these things will be added unto you"

I got news for you...you are not more holy and spiritual than I am. You do not love the Lord more than me....sickness, dire hunger [even shabby clothes] are disablers so far as gospel ministry is concerned. If you do not have the material things your spiritual things will be severely impinged upon.

I look forward to departing to be with Christ every bit a much as you do, therefore I say to you this hyper spirituality is a wrong argument.

 

[Right Divider]

What I said to you was spot on, it is the same principle. You think I ought to go and clear out the hospital with what I believe [even though Christ nor His apostles did]...why do YOU not clear out the vice dens with what you believe.

I just whacked the ball back at you...bad luck

You still think that you can deflect the issue this way. NO.

You need to understand that the things Jesus did here on earth and the instructions that He gave to the twelve are not what God is doing TODAY.

As you were shown, the apostles did INDEED ..... HEAL EVERYONE.

Act 5:15-16 KJV Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. (16) There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.​

There is CLEARLY something DIFFERENT going on TODAY.

I hear preachers saying so many stupid things like: "Oh, if we only had the faith that they had in the 'early church'".... blah blah blah

So I say to that preacher: "Why don't YOU have that kind of faith?"

How MANY folk did Paul raise from the dead in 20-30 years? or Peter? it is a irrelevant argument just as Trophimus and Timmy's tummy is irrelevant.

Not irrelevant? ... only that it seems that you want to remain ignorant of what God is doing today and think that you're part of what was going on then.

You are sayig what the Jews said to Christ at Nazareth..."what You did in Capernaum do here also" they did not like His reply either.

No, I'm just seeing that the scripture clearly shows. That the signs and wonders faded away during the transition from Christ's ministry to Israel and Christ's ministry through Paul.

There are tens of THOUSANDS of people all over America who witness to you [should you care to do a little study] that they have been ill and the Lord healed them. I witness to you, I was ill and the Lord healed me.

There are always people that make this bold and unsupported claims. You must be a big fan of Benny Hinn.

Why on earth that makes you angry is beyond me.

I'm not angry, just speaking the truth in love.

You say Paul was not instructed I say he was, he planted assemblies all over Asia in which the people had ministries of healing and deliverance and miracles....that proves the gospel he preached.

In the BEGINNING of his ministry, yes.... at the end, NO.

Healing is part of the gospel, "Himself bare our sicknesses and carried our diseases" to be saved means to be made every whit whole.

You are confusing things here, quoting (without a quote) scripture out of context, etc. etc.

It's also notable that you ADD to the scripture. That's a serious mistake.

Isaiah 53 is written specially to the people of Israel by a prophet of Israel. That passage is most definitely about SIN and not general physical health.

Isa 53:1-12 KJV Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (2) For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. (4) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. (6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (7) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. (9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. (10) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. (11) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. (12) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
​

There is not a SINGLE mention of disease in that passage. The entire passage speaks of the TRANSGRESSIONS of the peolpe of Israel.

And you are way off base.....you complain that you cannot see miracles at the same time as spouting unbelief.

God can do miracles ANY TIME THAT HE WANTS and am fully accepting of the fact that HE CAN DO THEM ANY TIME THAT HE WANTS.

Nothing is promised to unbelief...in fact God will make sure that you never do see a miracle.

And I am not confused...I have the experience, I have seen. You haven't but you think you know everything about it.

That is the confusion of this age, trying to measure truth by "experience" instead of the WORD OF GOD.

You argue the same as the man who is not born again...there is no such thing he says...well isn't he smart.

You attempt to call me an unbeliever. Shame on you. You are a scripture twister and that makes you appear to be the unbeliever.

 

[musterion]

You attempt to call me an unbeliever.

I saw that one coming several pages back; it was just a matter of when. Carefully consider all the cards Tot has dealt in this thread:

1. Opposition to Tot's thesis, based on Scripture passages that do not support Tot's thesis, can be dismissed as "gnats."
​

2. Physical healing is guaranteed by the Cross of Christ. For all who believe it/want it/faith it enough, God must provide it. If you doubt that, you don't doubt Tot, you deny the Cross and doubt God.
​

3. When asked about ALL the sign gifts, including raising the dead, Tot suddenly wants to shift the topic to you.
​

4. And now it comes to the point where you are probably not saved...not because you deny the Gospel of the grace of God but because you disagree with Tot.
​

All of that adds up to a cultic mindset, and I'm very sad and discouraged to have to say it. But at least now it's out in the open.

 

[serpentdove]

[People would get better if they had enough faith? ] "People would get better if the full gospel were preached?"

:chz4brnz: People would get better if they had enough faith? Eph 4:14

 

[serpentdove]

I saw that one coming several pages back; it was just a matter of when. Carefully consider all the cards Tot has dealt in this thread:

1. Opposition to Tot's thesis, based on Scripture passages that do not support Tot's thesis, can be dismissed as "gnats."
​

2. Physical healing is guaranteed by the Cross of Christ. For all who believe it/want it/faith it enough, God must provide it. If you doubt that, you don't doubt Tot, you deny the Cross and doubt God.
​

3. When asked about ALL the sign gifts, including raising the dead, Tot suddenly wants to shift the topic to you.
​

4. And now it comes to the point where you are probably not saved...not because you deny the Gospel of the grace of God but because you disagree with Tot.
​

All of that adds up to a cultic mindset, and I'm very sad and discouraged to have to say it. But at least now it's out in the open.

Would he tell parents who have lost a child to cancer--if only they'd had enough faith--if only their son had had enough faith, he would have lived?

No wonder TL doesn't answer questions. :dizzy:

If one is physically healed from an illness, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is a believer. :hammer:

 

[Totton Linnet]

You still think that you can deflect the issue this way. NO.

You need to understand that the things Jesus did here on earth and the instructions that He gave to the twelve are not what God is doing TODAY.

As you were shown, the apostles did INDEED ..... HEAL EVERYONE.

Act 5:15-16 KJV Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. (16) There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.​

There is CLEARLY something DIFFERENT going on TODAY.

I hear preachers saying so many stupid things like: "Oh, if we only had the faith that they had in the 'early church'".... blah blah blah

So I say to that preacher: "Why don't YOU have that kind of faith?"


Not irrelevant? ... only that it seems that you want to remain ignorant of what God is doing today and think that you're part of what was going on then.


No, I'm just seeing that the scripture clearly shows. That the signs and wonders faded away during the transition from Christ's ministry to Israel and Christ's ministry through Paul.


There are always people that make this bold and unsupported claims. You must be a big fan of Benny Hinn.


I'm not angry, just speaking the truth in love.


In the BEGINNING of his ministry, yes.... at the end, NO.


You are confusing things here, quoting (without a quote) scripture out of context, etc. etc.

It's also notable that you ADD to the scripture. That's a serious mistake.

Isaiah 53 is written specially to the people of Israel by a prophet of Israel. That passage is most definitely about SIN and not general physical health.

Isa 53:1-12 KJV Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (2) For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. (4) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. (6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (7) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. (9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. (10) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. (11) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. (12) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
​

There is not a SINGLE mention of disease in that passage. The entire passage speaks of the TRANSGRESSIONS of the peolpe of Israel.


God can do miracles ANY TIME THAT HE WANTS and am fully accepting of the fact that HE CAN DO THEM ANY TIME THAT HE WANTS.


That is a confusion of our age, measuring trying to measure truth by "experience" instead of the WORD OF GOD.


You attempt to call me an unbeliever. Shame on you. You are a scripture twister and that makes you appear to be the unbeliever.

Last things first, I am not attempting to make you appear an unbeliever, my point is that you are arguing along the same line that they do, they are not saved so they suppose that there is no such thing.

So with you, you have no experience of these matters therefore you suppose they are not real.

In the matter of the subject of this thread you are an unbeliever even though saved.

I totally reject that Isaiah is written for the Jews only...for that would say that His bearing our sins was for Jews only.

Matthew in his gospel translates griefs and sorrows as sicknesses and diseases and he is not wrong for that is the meaning.

I totally reject the idea that Paul's ministry or his message or his gospel changed. If you think you can read the bible like that you are wrong.

We go by what is written, not by what we think is written between the lines.

You can prove ANYTHING by saying "ah Paul's gospel developed"

The written exhortation is that we should earnestly desire the gifts.

There IS no record that Paul advised anybody that the gifts would cease in this age. When the perfect is come...when we shall know and be known in full, when we see Him face to face...then will no longer be any need for gifts.

Paul just prior to reaching Rome healed ALL the inhabitants of Malta. YOU say miracles were a sign to Israel but Paul during his stay in Rome admonished the Jews that they would look but see, listen but not hear.

I do not say "oh if we had but more faith" I say preach the FULL gospel and faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

To be saved means to be made whole...that is simply what saved means.

I say the Holy Ghost stopped demonstrating and actively manifesting Himself when the church backslid under the teachings of the fathers [so called] the eucharist and all that stuff.

The reformation great as it was went back to the fathers...it did not go back to the apostles. The apostolic church is the bible pattern.

 

[serpentdove]

The woman with the blood problem who touched Jesus' garment was healed (Mt 9:20). Many people were healed by Jesus (Mt 19:2). Many people were fed by Jesus (Mt 14:13-21). Not all continued on with him (Jn 6:26). We don't seek him for what he can give us or for what he can do for us. We don't say I'll take all the good stuff :up: but none of that bad stuff. :down: He isn't a cosmic vending machine (Schwarzentraub).

We seek him because we love him--good or bad, through thick or thin. Mt 5:45, Jn 6:68 :rain:

 

[Totton Linnet]

:chz4brnz: People would get better if they had enough faith? Eph 4:14

Please stop mixing my quotes with yours as though I had said it.

The power of God unto salvation is the good news. And the good news is, according to Paul's mystery, that we Gentiles have been made fellow citizens and co-heirs in Israel's commonwealth.

ALL the covenants and promises He made to them are ours without the law and ordinances but through Christ.

Bless the Lord o my soul and forget not all His benefits
Who forgiveth all thy trespasses
Who healeth all thy diseases, Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things.

Pardon and healing go hand in hand.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The woman with the blood problem who touched Jesus' garment was healed (Mt 9:20). Many people were healed by Jesus (Mt 19:2). Many people were fed by Jesus (Mt 14:13-21). Not all continued on with him (Jn 6:26). We don't seek him for what he can give us or for what he can do for us. He isn't a cosmic vending machine (Schwarzentraub).

We seek him because we love him--good or bad, through thick or thin. Mt 5:45, Jn 6:68 :rain:

What is that to you? it was the Lord who healed...are you going to instruct Him as to who He thinks fit and worthy to be healed? there is no evidence that they did not continue with Him.

Read Johns account of the feeding of 5, 000 more closely

Jesus said "you seek Me NOT because you saw miracles but because ye did eat and were filled" It is a reproof that they did not seek Him for the miracle.

He went on "hunger not for the meat which perisheth [the bread] but for the meat which endureth unto eternal life [the miracle]

And I do not see my Lord as a vending machine, I DO see Him as the primary source of every good and perfect gift.

I don't want the world or what the world offers, I want the blessings of God.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Would he tell parents who have lost a child to cancer--if only they'd had enough faith--if only their son had had enough faith, he would have lived.

No wonder TL doesn't answer questions. :dizzy:

If one is physically healed from an illness, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is a believer. :hammer:

Stop repeating this . it angers me. I have always said healing depends on the gospel being preached. The full gospel. I don't put any store on faith, that is not my theology, My confidence is in GRACE through faith and that [faith] not of yourselves.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The woman with the blood problem who touched Jesus' garment was healed (Mt 9:20). Many people were healed by Jesus (Mt 19:2). Many people were fed by Jesus (Mt 14:13-21). Not all continued on with him (Jn 6:26). We don't seek him for what he can give us or for what he can do for us. We don't say I'll take all the good stuff :up: but none of that bad stuff. :down: He isn't a cosmic vending machine (Schwarzentraub).

We seek him because we love him--good or bad, through thick or thin. Mt 5:45, Jn 6:68 :rain:

And this idea that you seek Him because you love is holy mush...we love Him because He first loved us. He chose us we did not choose Him.

You are alive right this minute by His miraculous power...don't you forget it

 

[musterion]

they are not saved so they suppose that there is no such thing.

Where did any of us who are saved ever say there is "no such thing" as divine healing today?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Would he tell parents who have lost a child to cancer--if only they'd had enough faith--if only their son had had enough faith, he would have lived.

No wonder TL doesn't answer questions. :dizzy:

If one is physically healed from an illness, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is a believer. :hammer:

What if God holds YOU responsible for that child? you are on the side of those who prevent the truth from being fully known.

You can read, you can see in the bible that sin and sickness are evil, that God forgives the one and heals the other.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Where did any of us who are saved ever say there is "no such thing" as divine healing today?

OK so you believe in divine healing, lets just hold it there a bit.

What is the reason for healing? on what grounds or basis does God heal?

 

[musterion]

OK so you believe in divine healing, lets just hold it there a bit.

What is the reason for healing? on what grounds or basis does God heal?

Thats a separate but related discussion. The issue here is that we don't by believe the apostolic era GIFT of healing has existed for 2,000 years nor has God guaranteed healing to us...but that is enough for you to doubt our salvation. You clearly implied that to RD.