How do we know which scriptures are inspired by God?

[Elia]

Do you believe the New Testament reveals Jesus (Yeshua) as a King, and that He fulfilled Messianic prophecies? I do. I do not believe the New Testament is wrong.

Bs"d

The simple facts tell me that he was not a king.

The simple facts tell me that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

I see that the NT brings Tanach texts which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever in order to "prove" that he was the messiah.

Why would anybody in his right mind believe in something like that??


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[jgarden]

How do we know which scriptures are inspired by God?

1. Even if the original Scriptures were divinely inspired, we not longer have access to them.

2. If you read the translators notes from any Bible, none claim that theirs is an infallible version.

3. Different translations have had to bridge languages and changes in the meaning of words and language over the last 2 000 years.

4. A classic example is the Mark 16:9-20 which appears in most translations. Ancient manuscripts, however, show that early versions of Mark ended at chapter 16, verse 8. Apparently some scribe, not content with the original ending, decided to extend the chapter 16 by another 12 verses that were taken from other sources.

5. Despite the above, the whole discussion of divinely inspired Scripture misses the point - Christians believe that when they read the Bible they are being led by the Holy Spirit to reveal its true meaning. Without the presence of the Holy Spirit, the real significance of the Bible is lost!

 

[Jacob]

Bs"d

The simple facts tell me that he was not a king.

The simple facts tell me that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

I see that the NT brings Tanach texts which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever in order to "prove" that he was the messiah.

Why would anybody in his right mind believe in something like that??


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

It is important to bring your knowledge of the Tanach to the New Testament scriptures when you read them.

 

[Ben Masada]

How do we know which scriptures are inspired by God?

!

If the Scriptures promote the Law and the Prophets, they are inspired by God. (Matthew 5:17-19; Luke 16:29-31)

 

[RBBI]

Listen WLG, are you sure that Paul was accepted by the Apostles of Jesus? After three years in Damascus, he finally decided to go to Jerusalem to try to join the Sect of the Nazarenes and the Apostles rejected him by saying that he could not even be a disciple, let alone an apostle. (Acts 9:16) I wonder why he even tried because I expected him to understand that the Apostles were supposed to be 12; neither 11 nor 13. Judas had got lost and, Matthias had been elected as the one to fill up the empty place left by Judas. (Acts 1:26) What did Paul want, to be the 13th apostle? No, WLG, Paul could not be an apostle and he never became one. The Apostle assigned to be an apostle of the Gentiles was Peter. (Acts 15:5)

Sorry for being a bit out of sync, just started reading this thread. Anyway, Paul was an overseer of the body, appointed by the risen Lord Himself.

 

[Elia]

Sorry for being a bit out of sync, just started reading this thread. Anyway, Paul was an overseer of the body, appointed by the risen Lord Himself.

Bs"d

The problem with the above is of course that for Paul being "an overseer of the body, appointed by the risen Lord Himself" we have only the word of one man, and that is Paul himself.

So that carries even as much weight as Mohammed claiming that the angel Gabriel appeared to him and dictated the Quran.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[beameup]

Sorry for being a bit out of sync, just started reading this thread. Anyway, Paul was an overseer of the body, appointed by the risen Lord Himself.

Correct. :thumb: Paul encountered the glorified Savior (Joshua) near Damascus. He then spent 3 years in Sinai (no doubt on Mt. Sinai, where the Law was given) receiving revelations from the glorified Savior (Joshua).
He never sought to "become a member of the Sect of the Nazarenes", that's nonsense. Paul did, however, go to the synagogues in the diaspora, while "the twelve" (disciples/apostles) remained in Jerusalem. Since Saul/Paul participated in the stoning-murder of members of the "Sect of the Nazarenes", he knew better than to return to Jerusalem, as the same fate would meet him. Even though he was the "Apostle to the Gentiles", he continued to first go to his brethren and declare that the promised Messiah (Savior) of Israel had come. In Jerusalem, the Religious Rulers continued to witness miracle after miracle from "The Twelve" and still continued to harden their hearts, just like Pharaoh in Egypt.

 

[Elia]

Correct. :thumb: Paul encountered the glorified Savior (Joshua) near Damascus.

Bs"d

Correction: Paul CLAIMED to have encountered a glorified savior near Damascus.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

Correction: Paul CLAIMED to have encountered a glorified savior near Damascus.

Like you "CLAIMED" that Moses come down from the mountain
with the Law in one hand and the "Oral Law"* in the other. :rotfl:
:mock:
*and that "oral law" later became your Mishna,
and following that, your Talmud "book-of-fairy-tales"

Everything I command you, you shall be careful to do;
you shall not add to nor take away from it. - Deuteronomy 12:32

 

[Elia]

Like you "CLAIMED" that Moses come down from the mountain
with the Law in one hand and the "Oral Law"* in the other.

Bs"d

Judaism is the only religion which is not based on the claim of one or two people, like Christianity, Islam, and all the others.

Judaism claims that God spoke, not to one man, but to the whole nations of millions of people, when giving the law on Mount Sinai.

In that Judaism is unique.

More about that subject here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEg_Oys4NkA

“For ask now concerning the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether any great thing like this has happened, or anything like it has been heard. Did any people ever hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as you have heard, and live? Or did God ever try to go and take for Himself a nation from the midst of another nation, by trials, by signs, by wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and by great terrors, according to all that Y-H-W-H your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?”
Deut 4:32-35

 

[RBBI]

After Paul's death, overseers were appointed to replace him. I doubt he wrote about his replacements after after he died.

 

[RBBI]

Correct. :thumb: Paul encountered the glorified Savior (Joshua) near Damascus. He then spent 3 years in Sinai (no doubt on Mt. Sinai, where the Law was given) receiving revelations from the glorified Savior (Joshua).
He never sought to "become a member of the Sect of the Nazarenes", that's nonsense. Paul did, however, go to the synagogues in the diaspora, while "the twelve" (disciples/apostles) remained in Jerusalem. Since Saul/Paul participated in the stoning-murder of members of the "Sect of the Nazarenes", he knew better than to return to Jerusalem, as the same fate would meet him. Even though he was the "Apostle to the Gentiles", he continued to first go to his brethren and declare that the promised Messiah (Savior) of Israel had come. In Jerusalem, the Religious Rulers continued to witness miracle after miracle from "The Twelve" and still continued to harden their hearts, just like Pharaoh in Egypt.

Paul was a Jew who practiced Judaism until his death, which he recounts in his speech near the end of his life. He also took a Nazarite vow at one point, and accompanied and paid for 4 others Nazarite vow sacrifices in the temple as well as his own, according to the law.

 

[RBBI]

@ Daqq....I believe there was another reason why He sat at the right hand of the Father. The ring with a seal that marked decrees as coming from the King himself, was on the right hand, the arm of His authority or power. The seal was used to make a mark on clay tablets or skins. If you consider that we are cylindrical earthen vessels much like a scroll is cylindrical when rolled up, the seal came on the day of Pentecost marking us as His message/messenger.

"If this SAME SPIRIT dwell in you, then He will also quicken your mortal bodies."

 

[Ben Masada]

Paul was a Jew who practiced Judaism until his death, which he recounts in his speech near the end of his life. He also took a Nazarite vow at one point, and accompanied and paid for 4 others Nazarite vow sacrifices in the temple as well as his own, according to the law.

Paul never took a Nazarite vow at no point in his life. If you read Acts 21, he had come to visit James the head of the Sect of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem and, James warned him to be careful because the Jewish authorities were on his hills for preaching against "Moses" aka the Law and even teaching the Jews to stop circumcising their children in the Diaspora. Since Paul had decided to overstay his visit, James suggested to him to get together with four men who were about to go to the Temple to pay a vow and make believe himself that he too followed the Law. What a shame to both; James to suggest such a hypocritical shame and Paul to accept without question! That he had taken a Nazarite vow was a pious forgery which is being believed even today. BTW, how about quoting the text? It is in Acts 21 but I am leaving for you to show me where he was paying a Nazarite vow.

 

[Ben Masada]

After Paul's death, overseers were appointed to replace him. I doubt he wrote about his replacements after after he died.

I believe that the Fathers of the Church aka the Catholic authorities took care of that replacement as they still do today to replace a Pope when he passes away.

 

[Ben Masada]

Sorry for being a bit out of sync, just started reading this thread. Anyway, Paul was an overseer of the body, appointed by the risen Lord Himself.

RBBI, can you please mention an EYEwitness for what you say, "the risen Lord Himself" appointed Paul oversee
of the "body?" The reason I am asking is that I find too hard to take Paul's word for it.

 

[RBBI]

I believe that the Fathers of the Church aka the Catholic authorities took care of that replacement as they still do today to replace a Pope when he passes away.

Except that the RCC didn't exist at the time. Unless you are actually suggesting they wrote the entire thing, which is also impossible since the texts have been dated to precede them as well.

 

[RBBI]

Paul never took a Nazarite vow at no point in his life. If you read Acts 21, he had come to visit James the head of the Sect of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem and, James warned him to be careful because the Jewish authorities were on his hills for preaching against "Moses" aka the Law and even teaching the Jews to stop circumcising their children in the Diaspora. Since Paul had decided to overstay his visit, James suggested to him to get together with four men who were about to go to the Temple to pay a vow and make believe himself that he too followed the Law. What a shame to both; James to suggest such a hypocritical shame and Paul to accept without question! That he had taken a Nazarite vow was a pious forgery which is being believed even today. BTW, how about quoting the text? It is in Acts 21 but I am leaving for you to show me where he was paying a Nazarite vow.

Uh, yes he did. Read Acts 18.

 

[RBBI]

RBBI, can you please mention an EYEwitness for what you say, "the risen Lord Himself" appointed Paul oversee
of the "body?" The reason I am asking is that I find too hard to take Paul's word for it.

The eye witness would be that after Paul's death, 7 overseers were appointed to take his place, as its recorded. Since he knew no one but the risen Lord, the Lord would have been the One to appoint him in the first place, just as the Holy Ghost appointed a replacement for Judas.

 

[Ben Masada]

The eye witness would be that after Paul's death, 7 overseers were appointed to take his place, as its recorded. Since he knew no one but the risen Lord, the Lord would have been the One to appoint him in the first place, just as the Holy Ghost appointed a replacement for Judas.

I believe I asked for an EYEWITNESS to the resurrection of Jesus, not a witness. Witnesses are usually from hear-say. Eyewitnesses are supposed to have actually seen the event in process. There was none in the case of Jesus. So, you have no choice but to appeal to faith. But you must not forget that to believe by faith is the same as to believe without understanding. According to Paul himself in II Cor. 5:7 Christians are supposed to walk by faith and not by sight. If sight is given here as opposite to faith and, sight means understanding, it is only obvious that "by faith," one walks in the dark.