Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Do you worship JC?
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5
How do we know which scriptures are inspired by God?
- Thread starter Elia
- Start date
Bs"d
Do you worship JC?
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5
I worship YHVH God.
John 5:23 NASB - 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Matthew 2:11 NASB - 11 After coming into the house they saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
Matthew 28:9 NASB - 9 And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.
Matthew 14:33 NASB - 33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"
John 9:38 NASB - 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him.
I do not know Greek.
What is the nature of your question?
Do you worship God?
What does the word worship mean? How is it used in the Bible?
LINK: Worship (NASB)
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
I only worship Y-H-W-H.
You say you worship Y-H-W-H God. Why then do you bring NT texts in which idolaters worship a human?
"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."
Ex 20:1+2
The link is to the word worship as it appears in the Bible. It is an English word. I am learning Hebrew but I have neither looked at the Hebrew nor the Greek.
The point is that we are to worship God alone. What are we to do in regard to Jesus Christ God's Son the King of Israel?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
We have to completely ignore him. Because he was not God's son, and certainly not the king of Israel.
In fact he was a carpenter, and that is something totally different from a king.
He also did not fulfil the messianic prophecies, so his claim that he was the messiah also goes out the window.
"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15
beameup
New member
Why don't you tell him some of the remarks about Yeshu that you have in your "esteemed" Talmud?
John 1:49 NASB - 49 Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."
John 12:13 NASB - 13 took the branches of the palm trees and went out to meet Him, and began to shout, "Hosanna! BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, even the King of Israel."
Jesus did fulfill Messianic prophecies.
I am actually not opposed to the Talmud, and I don't know that your thoughts are accurate.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Let's not fool ourselves, and just look at the facts:
Was JC ever a king?
No. Never.
He never got any further than being a wandering preacher and/or miracle healer.
Obviously, he did not:
Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."
Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.
Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."
They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.
In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.
Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."
When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.
.
Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."
Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
beameup
New member
The Talmud was put-together as a result of the total destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple and dispersion of Jews living there.
The Talmud was an attempt to void the Torah of Moses and reinvent "Judaism" without the sacrificial offerings or obedience to God's Feasts.
As well, there are a lot of slanderous fallacies concerning Jesus of Nazareth contained in the Talmud.
If Jesus of Nazareth was so "insignificant" to Jews, then why did the "Jews" murder so many other Jews that believed in Yeshua?
It is my belief that He is King. I believe Jesus to be the Messiah.
You spoke of the belief of a second coming.
Are you familiar with Hebrews 9:28 NASB?
Hebrews 9:28 NASB so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
I do want to understand this.
I believe, like you, that it is important to understand Messianic prophecies.
If I don't understand something or don't know what scriptures are Messianic or in what way they are, I want to learn about it.
I believe you are saying that you are under the understanding that the passage you quoted is Messianic. I want to learn about it. I believe that if it is then it is fulfilled in Yeshua, Jesus. But I don't know how or when.
I am learning. I believe that the Bible reveals that Jesus was to return, but apart from the scriptures that reveal what this looks like I don't know how to understand this.
Have you read the verses in the New Testament that reveal Jesus to be the Messiah or that reveal Jesus to be the King?
I have no problem with Jews or anything Jewish. I don't have a problem with the Talmud. I don't know why you are saying what you are.
Have you studied the Mishna? I know just a little about it. I am learning. There are six divisions.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
So many statements in scripture are simple and clear. All the "grand debates" are nowhere. You believe this, or you don't:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
This is the word of God. Truth isn't even open for debate. You believe the doctrines of the Christian faith, or you don't. You must decide where you stand, to believe or not believe: it's one way or the other. It's not a Chinese menu you may pick your truths from, then dispute the rest, trying to make God a liar. God is never the liar.
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
This is the word of God. Truth isn't even open for debate. You believe the doctrines of the Christian faith, or you don't. You must decide where you stand, to believe or not believe: it's one way or the other. It's not a Chinese menu you may pick your truths from, then dispute the rest, trying to make God a liar. God is never the liar.
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Ben Masada
New member
I don't have to tell you; you can read my struggle to promote the truth of the Word of God unto all who can read my posts. The characteristics of this light that I am spreading are the same as those of the gospel spread by Jesus: The Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 5:17-19 and Luke 16:29-31) "Moses" aka the Law." Then, When Jesus was delivering his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, he said: "You are the light of the world." (Matthew 5:14)
beameup
New member
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees [ie: ultra orthodox], you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:20
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill - Matthew 5:17
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence [King & Kingdom rejected]. John 18:36
Israel will become the "light of the world" when the Kingdom is established on earth. The Kingdom of Heaven could have been established when these words were spoken, however, the King was rejected because he didn't meet the "expectations" of the Ultra Orthodox. The "common folk" believed in Him, but the "esteemed" and "elevated" Scribes and Rabbis rejected.
2 Timothy 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
beameup
New member
This just goes to show your ignorance of your own "history". Read the record of the search in Jesse's household for the next King. David was suspected of being "illegitimate" and pushed off to the side in the household and ended up all alone with a bunch of stinky sheep.
The same "standard of judgment that you pass will be the standard of judgment against you"
In case you didn't know, Yeshua was rejected by the "ultra-orthodox" Jewish hierarchy, which were nothing but flunkies appointed by the Romans. The common folk gladly received him upon his entry into Jerusalem a few days before the Passover sacrifice. But, not to worry, there will be a "messiah" coming that you will "receive" - like "King" Saul, he will be attractive and charismatic.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Just keep in mind that when this was written the NT didn't exist, because by writing the above a piece of it was being created.
So the above text speaks about the Hebrew Bible, and not about the NT.
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Yes I read them, but I know that he never was a king, and I know that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, therefore I know that the NT is wrong.
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
Do you believe the New Testament reveals Jesus (Yeshua) as a King, and that He fulfilled Messianic prophecies? I do. I do not believe the New Testament is wrong.