I would guess that you have 0 idea of what God has accomplished in Jesus Christ. You don't know and you don't want to know.
How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
I would guess that you have 0 idea of what God has accomplished in Jesus Christ. You don't know and you don't want to know.
Nanja
Well-known member
Because you are not Born of God, it's impossible for you to comprehend God's Word which is Spiritual.
Its amazing. You have God's word in your hands. You read it, but you don't understand it. You and B57 are a blind as bats.
Nanja
Well-known member
The Truth of scripture is hid from you because you are in a Lost state:
2 Cor. 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Corinthians 4:3,4. Was written for you. You don't believe that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. And has reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. So you don't believe the Gospel. You quote scripture that condemns you.
beloved57
Well-known member
That scripture doesn't say that reconciliation has been provided for everyone. So you are still lying!
Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
Sure it does, you are so spiritually blind that you can't see it, 2 Corinthians 5:19 also Hebrews 2:9.
beloved57
Well-known member
You lied. Do you want to discuss the points made in the Op?
Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
oatmeal
Well-known member
What would you like to discuss?
If I understand your post accurately, how would you reconcile these verses with your conclusions?
beloved57
Well-known member
Do you understand the points I made in the OP ?
beloved57
Well-known member
How Jn 1:29 teaches limited atonement !
[FONT="]The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The world here is limited, its a particular world. Again the word world means:
[/FONT]any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort .
The world here in Jn 1:29 is limited to all them that have had their sins taken away !
[FONT="]The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The world here is limited, its a particular world. Again the word world means:
[/FONT]any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort .
The world here in Jn 1:29 is limited to all them that have had their sins taken away !
Epoisses
New member
John himself clarified his understanding of the world and it was never the elect, ever. Often the world he referred to was the evil in the world and in other cases such as 1John 2:2 it meant all people together. Never once not even on a single occasion did 'world' ever refer to the elect only. This is purely fiction and the product of a Reformer trying to out do those who were his betters.
beloved57
Well-known member
How Jn 1:29 teaches limited atonement !2
Im going to show from scripture how the word world in Jn 1:29 teaches limited atonement, simply because have not had their sins taken away. The words taketh away in Jn 1:29 are airó:
I raise, lift up, take away, remove.
to remove: to remove the guilt and punishment of sin by expiation, or to cause that sin be neither imputed nor punished
of things; to take out of the way, destroy: χειρόγραφον, Colossians 2:14; cause to cease: τήν κρίσιν, Acts 8:33 (Isaiah 53:8[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]). [/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The ideal is from the OT law from on the day of atonement Lev 16:21 when the High Priest would confess all the sins of the House of Israel, not all mankind, then lay hands on the live goat, symbolic of israel sins being laid to the account of the live goat, and then the live goat is sent away with their sins, removed from the presence of God. However this was only for Gods Chosen People Israel, Gods World of His People. Remember the word world means :
[/FONT]any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort .!
Would not that define the nation of Israel ? Particularly Separated from the rest of mankind ? Its the same with the world in Jn 1:29, its not all mankind that has had their sins sent away or removed from Gods Law and Justice !
John writing to believers only writes 1 Jn 3:5
5 [FONT="]And ye know that he[ the lamb of God] was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.[/FONT]
Im going to show from scripture how the word world in Jn 1:29 teaches limited atonement, simply because have not had their sins taken away. The words taketh away in Jn 1:29 are airó:
I raise, lift up, take away, remove.
to remove: to remove the guilt and punishment of sin by expiation, or to cause that sin be neither imputed nor punished
of things; to take out of the way, destroy: χειρόγραφον, Colossians 2:14; cause to cease: τήν κρίσιν, Acts 8:33 (Isaiah 53:8[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]). [/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The ideal is from the OT law from on the day of atonement Lev 16:21 when the High Priest would confess all the sins of the House of Israel, not all mankind, then lay hands on the live goat, symbolic of israel sins being laid to the account of the live goat, and then the live goat is sent away with their sins, removed from the presence of God. However this was only for Gods Chosen People Israel, Gods World of His People. Remember the word world means :
[/FONT]any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort .!
Would not that define the nation of Israel ? Particularly Separated from the rest of mankind ? Its the same with the world in Jn 1:29, its not all mankind that has had their sins sent away or removed from Gods Law and Justice !
John writing to believers only writes 1 Jn 3:5
5 [FONT="]And ye know that he[ the lamb of God] was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.[/FONT]
beloved57
Well-known member
[h=2]How 2 Cor 5:19 teaches limited atonement !2[/h]
2 Cor 5:17-19
[FONT="]17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant possibly be all without exception because those of this World are new creatures in Christ Vs 17. All men Christ died for Vs 14-15 are new creatures, their sins have been put away, and they are new creatures by Justification and reconciliation ! Now this cannot be said of the world that shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Now is the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 the same as the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32 ? The answer is NO ![/FONT]
2 Cor 5:17-19
[FONT="]17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant possibly be all without exception because those of this World are new creatures in Christ Vs 17. All men Christ died for Vs 14-15 are new creatures, their sins have been put away, and they are new creatures by Justification and reconciliation ! Now this cannot be said of the world that shall be condemned 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Now is the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 the same as the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32 ? The answer is NO ![/FONT]
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen. They are opposite worlds.
The reconciled world Jesus prays for, are those given Him of the Father in Election Eph. 1:4, His Sheep.
John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
But the condemned world consists of the reprobates; the world of those which Jesus does not pray for.
John 17:9
I pray for them [Sheep]: I pray not for the world [goats], but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
The world of the reprobates / goats has the devil for their father John 8:44; Mat. 13:38b: "the tares are the children of the wicked one;"
Christ's Atonement was Limited exclusively to His Seed, His Sheep, Chosen in Him to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7.
Is. 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Is. 53:10-11
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
beloved57
Well-known member
The World of the Elect !
2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
This world has been discharged of all of its sins, and is in a blessed state as these to whom God will not impute sin Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant be the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
This world is condemned and charged with its sins !
2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
This world has been discharged of all of its sins, and is in a blessed state as these to whom God will not impute sin Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Now the World in 2 Cor 5:19 cant be the condemned world in 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
This world is condemned and charged with its sins !
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen Brother!
The Elect World of 2 Cor. 5:19 God Loved and gave His only begotten Son for John 3:16, were chosen or elected in Christ before the foundation to have remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7, or non-imputation of sins Rom. 4:7-8, thus being Justified even from Everlasting in their Surety Heb. 7:22; Rev. 13:8, according to the riches of His Grace and Mercy Ps. 103:17; Rom. 9:23.
While the condemned world 1 Cor. 11:32 God Created for His Purpose to damn them Rom. 9:22, and pour out His wrath upon them for their sins in the Day of Judgment Rev. 21:8.
God had determined, according to His Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 to Limit the Atoning Work of Christ to His Elect Seed exclusively before any had been born or done good or evil Rom. 9:11!
You read things into the scriptures that are not there. You twist and pervert the scriptures so as to please your false Calvinist God. You will not escape the judgment of the one and only true God of the Bible.
You never learn do you, Robert?
The Father has committed all judgment to the Son.
The Son does not judge unbelievers.
There is no point for me to provide scriptures, you ignore them anyway.
Nanja
Well-known member
You are disqualified from knowing the True God and comprehending His Words because you are not Of God John 8:47.
Neither can you cast judgment upon His Elect Children, for their righteousness has been performed by Christ in His Person as Mediator and Surety Rom. 5:18.
Is. 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.