Hell

[eleos]

English "Gehenna" represents the Greek Geenna (Γέεννα) found in the New Testament, a phonetic transcription of Aramaic Gēhannā (ܓܝܗܢܐ), equivalent to the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, literally "Valley of Hinnom".


In many Bible translations, the word hell appears eleven times on Jesus’ lips. He actually used the Greek term gehenna, from the Hebrew name Gê Hinnom, Valley of Hinnom. According to the Old Testament, in this gorge south of Jerusalem, kings Ahaz and Manasseh conducted the horrendous pagan rite of burning children to Molech 2 Chronicles. 28:3; 2 Chronicles 33:6 Later, godly king Josiah brought the practice to a halt 2 Kings 23:10. Because of the sins perpetrated in it, Jeremiah prophesied that God would make the place a valley of slaughter Jeremiah 7:32-33; Jeremiah 19:6. Hence, for the Jews, the valley became a symbol of the last judgment and the punishment of the impenitent. Jesus used the name figuratively, without explaining any details regarding the time and place of the punishment, which we find in other biblical passages. Hell, though, is not a place of eternal punishment.

 

[clefty]

English "Gehenna" represents the Greek Geenna (Γέεννα) found in the New Testament, a phonetic transcription of Aramaic Gēhannā (ܓܝܗܢܐ), equivalent to the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, literally "Valley of Hinnom".


In many Bible translations, the word hell appears eleven times on Jesus’ lips. He actually used the Greek term gehenna, from the Hebrew name Gê Hinnom, Valley of Hinnom. According to the Old Testament, in this gorge south of Jerusalem, kings Ahaz and Manasseh conducted the horrendous pagan rite of burning children to Molech 2 Chronicles. 28:3; 2 Chronicles 33:6 Later, godly king Josiah brought the practice to a halt 2 Kings 23:10. Because of the sins perpetrated in it, Jeremiah prophesied that God would make the place a valley of slaughter Jeremiah 7:32-33; Jeremiah 19:6. Hence, for the Jews, the valley became a symbol of the last judgment and the punishment of the impenitent. Jesus used the name figuratively, without explaining any details regarding the time and place of the punishment, which we find in other biblical passages. Hell, though, is not a place of eternal punishment.

That “you will not surely die” is a hard one to unlearn...

Speaking of:

https://www.unlearnthelies.com/do-we-have-an-immortal-soul.html

So much hangs on it for them...the church has cowed so many

 

[eleos]

Torment in Hell ... No


Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish*… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” (consume - totally destroyed)

*Perish (singular - not perishing ) suffer complete ruin or destruction.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.” (they will not receive eternal life - they do not live in any manner)


Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.” (2nd death)

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)


Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.” (will not continue life)


Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” (no trace of the wicked totally gone)

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” (consumed - totally destroyed)

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“ (non-existent)


Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.” (they will be totally burned up - destroyed by fire)


Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“ (totally destroyed)


Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“ (destroyed)


2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …” (destroyed - never to live again)

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”


2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“ (2nd death)


Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“ (2nd death)


James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”


2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (the unsaved in the grave will face destruction) 2nd resurrection


Revelation 20:9

(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell.

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Death is Death ... cease to exist. The first death (earthly death) is temporal ... the 2nd death is final and for eternity (cease to exist).

 

[clefty]

Torment in Hell ... No


Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish*… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” (consume - totally destroyed)

*Perish (singular - not perishing ) suffer complete ruin or destruction.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.” (they will not receive eternal life - they do not live in any manner)


Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.” (2nd death)

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)


Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.” (will not continue life)


Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” (no trace of the wicked totally gone)

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” (consumed - totally destroyed)

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“ (non-existent)


Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.” (they will be totally burned up - destroyed by fire)


Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“ (totally destroyed)


Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“ (destroyed)


2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …” (destroyed - never to live again)

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”


2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“ (2nd death)


Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“ (2nd death)


James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”


2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (the unsaved in the grave will face destruction) 2nd resurrection


Revelation 20:9

(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell.

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Death is Death ... cease to exist. The first death (earthly death) is temporal ... the 2nd death is final and for eternity (cease to exist).

Good work

HalleluYah

Man is a living soul

Body from dust + spirit from Yah breathed in = living soul

Take one of those ingredients away from the living soul and you have nothing...

Even in the new earth we will not be immortal but eating from the tree of life...to live forever

 

[way 2 go]

English "Gehenna" represents the Greek Geenna (Γέεννα) found in the New Testament, a phonetic transcription of Aramaic Gēhannā (ܓܝܗܢܐ), equivalent to the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, literally "Valley of Hinnom".


In many Bible translations, the word hell appears eleven times on Jesus’ lips. He actually used the Greek term gehenna, from the Hebrew name Gê Hinnom, Valley of Hinnom. According to the Old Testament, in this gorge south of Jerusalem, kings Ahaz and Manasseh conducted the horrendous pagan rite of burning children to Molech 2 Chronicles. 28:3; 2 Chronicles 33:6 Later, godly king Josiah brought the practice to a halt 2 Kings 23:10. Because of the sins perpetrated in it, Jeremiah prophesied that God would make the place a valley of slaughter Jeremiah 7:32-33; Jeremiah 19:6. Hence, for the Jews, the valley became a symbol of the last judgment and the punishment of the impenitent. Jesus used the name figuratively, without explaining any details regarding the time and place of the punishment, which we find in other biblical passages. Hell, though, is not a place of eternal punishment.

the lake of fire is the place of eternal punishment
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


hell is a holding place until judgement day
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[way 2 go]

Torment in Hell ... No

you are wrong :carryon:

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[way 2 go]

it’s an abomination to speak with the dead...wonder who started this story...ironic with so many dead you think more stories would be had...a useful means to spread the truth

Instead it’s a folktale He references as the dead know nothing...they are asleep

by folktale you mean lie

He didn’t lie when He said that about His friend Lazarus who was dead and not in Abraham’s Bosom motel...or else He would have said that to comfort the mourning...

didn't lie
Joh_11:11 After saying these things, he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him."

so it’s all spirits no material physical matter?

Lazarus,Abraham & the richman are spirits

rich men usually know what to ask for...already odd that he wanted just a drop

first the inch then the mile

right it’s not a fire to warm them from the cold

Just don’t see how a physical fire torments a spirit...

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[clefty]

the lake of fire is the place of eternal punishment
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


hell is a holding place until judgement day
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And when you eat the bread it turns to flesh too yes? That wine to actually His blood yes?

And when He says He is a door you look for the hinges and handle?

Revelation too is literal...there is an actual seven headed beast up there...the four horseman have already ridden across the clouds up there?...a woman standing on the moon? Etc et al?

 

[clefty]

you are wrong :carryon:

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

A morality tale...poor people loved it...used to teach something else besides state of the dead...

The last of a series of parables to teach...but yes with named names...so it is a documentary? LOL

 

[JudgeRightly]

And when you eat the bread it turns to flesh too yes? That wine to actually His blood yes?

And when He says He is a door you look for the hinges and handle?

Revelation too is literal...there is an actual seven headed beast up there...the four horseman have already ridden across the clouds up there?...a woman standing on the moon? Etc et al?

Appeal to extremes.

Every word of the Bible is true (in the original manuscripts).

That does not mean that everything has to be read woodenly literal.

There are figures of speech in the Bible, which is a book of History, just like any any other book has.

 

[clefty]

by folktale you mean lie

was there a shepherd with 100 sheep and one missing? Parables are not exactly lies...

You remind me of this crowd...LOL

https://youtu.be/9czBBKof7Yo

didn't lie
Joh_11:11 After saying these things, he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him."

that is then a lie as the dead according to yours are carried off to Abraham’s Bosom motel...

Lazarus,Abraham & the richman are spirits

...oh ok...and the gulf between them?...the fire?...how is spirit in another spirit’s bosom comfort? And they are able to talk bein afar off yes?

first the inch then the mile

lol...yes in torment is possible bargaining strategies...why after a thousand million years perhaps enough water can be given to extinguish the fire itself no?

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Ummm...that forever and ever is not dispensed to humans...LOL...

 

[clefty]

Appeal to extremes.

Every word of the Bible is true (in the original manuscripts).

That does not mean that everything has to be read woodenly literal.

There are figures of speech in the Bible, which is a book of History, just like any any other book has.

Eternal torment woodenly literal is argued from silence...at best by a morality folktale popular by rich man getting his...

Every word is true...they ate of His bread and still died...living water did not flow from Him actually...He is not a vine don’t look for leaves...

Wages of sin is death...not eternal torment...”WHOSOEVER believes will not perish”...FINI and NOT “whosoever believes will not be tormented for ever and ever”

 

[way 2 go]

was there a shepherd with 100 sheep and one missing? Parables are not exactly lies...

shepherds exist sheep exist

Ummm...that forever and ever is not dispensed to humans...LOL...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[clefty]

shepherds exist sheep exist

Abrahams did and do too...oh and Lazaruses...they exist and existed...

Neat eh?

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Another vision useful to teach...

Or there is a woman standing on the moon?

 

[Aimiel]

You do see two events here...torment...and ascending smoke...

And even in the physical literal realm the smoke of a fire lasts after the fire has gone out...

And notice it is the smoke of their torment NOT the smoke of their tormenting...

A slight and subtle difference between something completed and something ongoing...

Call it as slight as you wish, the smoke would dissipate, eventually, were their torment to cease. It doesn't, and so: that torment continues.

 

[clefty]

Call it as slight as you wish, the smoke would dissipate, eventually, were their torment to cease. It doesn't, and so: that torment continues.

Ascending forever and ever it would at some point reach into outer space and in a vaccum like the nothingness of space it would dissipate...so

1. It’s magical smoke ascending forever never dissipating...which at some point fills the universe?
2. John got the physics wrong...
3. It’s symbolism...teaching tool

BTW Smoke can outlast the fire...so the torment could end as the fire is burnt out its smoke continuing to ascend...forever?

There can also be fire without smoke...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ascending forever and ever it would at some point reach into outer space and in a vaccum like the nothingness of space it would dissipate...so

1. It’s magical smoke ascending forever never dissipating...which at some point fills the universe?
2. John got the physics wrong...
3. It’s symbolism...teaching tool

4. You've completely misunderstood the passage.

 

[clefty]

4. You've completely misunderstood the passage.

Because there is a woman standing on the moon...wearing the sun...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Because there is a woman standing on the moon...

Like I said, you've misunderstood the passage.

 

[clefty]

Like I said, you've misunderstood the passage.

You keep saying...

And adding to the Word...pulling arguments from silence...

For the first heaven and the first earth had PASSED AWAY...nothing remaining burning in the corner over there...

Rev 21 All things new...not in the corner over there...that lake is clarified as SECOND DEATH...so death itself was dead...passed away as it said in verse 1...fini...done...

NO MORE sorrow tears or pain...verse 4...think those in hell agree?



Rev 22:3 ...”NO MORE curse”...those being tormented would disagree...as the curse would still be