Hell and A Lack of Mercy

[Arthur Brain]

I understand you reject it.

A doctrine? Sure.

You ready to acknowledge you have your own input in any salvation and it isn't 100% God?

 

[Angel4Truth]

A doctrine? Sure.

You ready to acknowledge you have your own input in any salvation and it isn't 100% God?

No, i didn't save myself or do anything for it. I merely extended back the gift of faith that He offered me instead of rejecting it in pride that my way is better.

Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

 

[Arthur Brain]

No, i didn't save myself or do anything for it. I merely extended back the gift of faith that He offered me instead of rejecting it in pride that my way is better.

Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Without your input - no matter how small - then what then? Why do you so casually dismiss everyone else as being full of pride if they don't believe? You're effectively going against your own verse as you think more highly of yourself than those who don't believe the same as you - and it adds up as to why you're so flippant in regards to their suffering as if it's "chosen".

 

[Angel4Truth]

Without your input - no matter how small - then what then? Why do you so casually dismiss everyone else as being full of pride if they don't believe?

If they wont bend their knee to God, they are full of pride.

You're effectively going against your own verse as you think more highly of yourself than those who don't believe the same as you - and it adds up as to why you're so flippant in regards to their suffering as if it's "chosen".

Nope, because as you keep dismissing, i admit i needed a savior and dont deserve anything but hell also, you keep ignoring that.

 

[Aimiel]

After death (it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, according to Scripture) comes judgment. God sends those who deserve it to the Lake of Fire. On Judgment Day there will not be a single word uttered against God's Judgments. He is perfectly just. It is only The Blood of Jesus and our testimony of Him that grants us the grace to receive His free gift of eternal life in His Holy Presence. Without are dogs, sorcerers and whoremongers. They all deserve their fate. It will break God's Heart to send them to hell, but they will go there. He has spoken it and He doesn't lie.

 

[freelight]

this goes beyond 'simplicity' but understanding the use of 'aion' in proper context

this goes beyond 'simplicity' but understanding the use of 'aion' in proper context

Yes the bible is written for simple folks, not for folks who try to twist every word to make it fit their whims.

or is it any use traversing land and sea till you find a linguist who give you the interpretation you desire.

Eternal means eternal.

I already shared the educational links on the original word 'aion' concerning its true meaning here, and 'eternal' or 'never-ending' is not a fit or correct equivalent of the term. I also expound the philosophical/moral unrationality and insanity of ECT.

You cant impose the English word 'eternal' in those verses, because 'aion' and its adjectival forms do not mean 'eternal', unless those adjectives are describing 'God' or something of 'eternity'. 'Aion' is an indefinite period of time. Again, even asides from the textual criticism showing the error of 'translation' to an English word equavilent, it doesn't hold up philosophically, neither does it glorify the goodness, wisdom or mercy of God, it denigrates his character.

 

[glorydaz]

A doctrine? Sure.

You ready to acknowledge you have your own input in any salvation and it isn't 100% God?

God saves those who believe. I love the picture the Lord gave us...the example, if you will, of the serpent on a pole. The children of Israel had been bitten by poisonous snakes (the poison of sin). They were told by Moses that all they needed to do was LOOK at the serpent on the pole and they would live. Some probably ran around, hoping to get rid of the poison, which just spread it more throughout their body. Others probably tried some special herbs. Some may have tried to cut and even suck out the poison. No good. The only thing they could do was LOOK at the serpent on a pole and they would live. We just need to believe (LOOK) to be saved. God expects that much from us and nothing more. Those who refuse to LOOK to God are left to their own devices.

 

[aikido7]

As I follow the threads of this forum and read the comments and responses, I have realized that many in the church lack what I call a God-level mercy. When you can talk about someone going to Hell, without being the slightest bit concerned about it, it indicates to me that you do not understand, or choose to ignore the tragedy of anyone spending eternity in Hell. It is not something you should talk about with any degree of joy or humor in it. It is a tragedy and if there is not some degree of sadness in your voice then you are lacking in mercy. So, what I am going to talk about here is mercy and Hell.

When something is so unpleasant, so ugly, so terrible or so painful, people have a tendency to avoid the subject. They do not want to hear about it, see it, learn about it or discuss it. That coupled with the fact that scripture is somewhat lacking and what there is, is somewhat vague, is why so many Christians do not have a grasp of the true nature of Hell…what it is really like. I am going to lead you through a scenario of what it is like for someone who dies and is taken to hell. I am not going to go into detail as to how I know this, except to say that it is personal revelational knowledge. My hope is that by sharing this with you, you may be a little more serious and concerned when the subject of someone going to Hell comes up.

He dies. Three demons grab him and drag and carry him down through the Earth. . He ends up in a huge cavern, kind of lying on the side of a hill. He seems to be embedded in it and unable to move. He looks down at himself and think that he is OK. Suddenly flesh starts to fall off of his bones. It falls off in clumps and the next time he looks, there are thousands of worms crawling through his bones. Fear, sadness and regret grip his soul as he realizes that he is in Hell for eternity. Off in the distance he can hear screaming that never seems to stop. Later, three demons come and grab him and start carrying him off. They take him to a large cavern that is filled with pits in the ground as far as you can see. These pits are six feet in diameter and four feet below the top is a miniature lake of molten lava. Each pit has lost soul in it trying to get out. He notices that the flesh will burn off and then grow back and burn off again. Blood curdling screams are everywhere. As they pass each pit, some of the lost cry out for mercy. He hear one say: “Jesus, save me!” They finally reach an empty pit. He is thinking: “Oh no, please, no!” The demons throw him into the empty pit. The intense pain is of a magnitude that he is sure that he will pass out. But he doesn’t. The pain subsides briefly as the flesh grows back on his bones. It then starts to burn off again along with more pain that the last time. This cycle will never stop. It will last until eternity. There will be no early outs, no paroles, no pardons.. FOREEVER..

Now picture this as being you. Suppose that years ago you were not blessed and did not make the decision to accept Jesus. Suppose everyone assumed you were saved and you had an untimely death. Think of yourself crying out for mercy. Think about that friend of yours who could have told you but put it off because there was always tomorrow. Think about your wife or husband who decided that you would eventually find your own way.

Now think about this person as being your friend, or your wife or husband. Let’s say that he or she had a second chance at life and was spared the horror of Hell. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Do you have that Godly mercy that will lead you to take action?

Next time you talk or think about someone going to Hell will you handle it differently? What will you do about it? What if they died tomorrow?

No one has yet been able to establish the limits on God's mercy.

 

[Aimiel]

You cant impose the English word 'eternal' in those verses, because 'aion' and its adjectival forms do not mean 'eternal', unless those adjectives are describing 'God' or something of 'eternity'. 'Aion' is an indefinite period of time.

That period of time (aion) has no agreed-upon length, other than most Biblical scholars agreeing that it is THOUSANDS of years. That, alone, would be a very long time, since Scripture states that the smoke arises for aions and aions.

 

[glorydaz]

As I follow the threads of this forum and read the comments and responses, I have realized that many in the church lack what I call a God-level mercy. When you can talk about someone going to Hell, without being the slightest bit concerned about it, it indicates to me that you do not understand, or choose to ignore the tragedy of anyone spending eternity in Hell. It is not something you should talk about with any degree of joy or humor in it. It is a tragedy and if there is not some degree of sadness in your voice then you are lacking in mercy. So, what I am going to talk about here is mercy and Hell.

When something is so unpleasant, so ugly, so terrible or so painful, people have a tendency to avoid the subject. They do not want to hear about it, see it, learn about it or discuss it. That coupled with the fact that scripture is somewhat lacking and what there is, is somewhat vague, is why so many Christians do not have a grasp of the true nature of Hell…what it is really like. I am going to lead you through a scenario of what it is like for someone who dies and is taken to hell. I am not going to go into detail as to how I know this, except to say that it is personal revelational knowledge. My hope is that by sharing this with you, you may be a little more serious and concerned when the subject of someone going to Hell comes up.

He dies. Three demons grab him and drag and carry him down through the Earth. . He ends up in a huge cavern, kind of lying on the side of a hill. He seems to be embedded in it and unable to move. He looks down at himself and think that he is OK. Suddenly flesh starts to fall off of his bones. It falls off in clumps and the next time he looks, there are thousands of worms crawling through his bones. Fear, sadness and regret grip his soul as he realizes that he is in Hell for eternity. Off in the distance he can hear screaming that never seems to stop. Later, three demons come and grab him and start carrying him off. They take him to a large cavern that is filled with pits in the ground as far as you can see. These pits are six feet in diameter and four feet below the top is a miniature lake of molten lava. Each pit has lost soul in it trying to get out. He notices that the flesh will burn off and then grow back and burn off again. Blood curdling screams are everywhere. As they pass each pit, some of the lost cry out for mercy. He hear one say: “Jesus, save me!” They finally reach an empty pit. He is thinking: “Oh no, please, no!” The demons throw him into the empty pit. The intense pain is of a magnitude that he is sure that he will pass out. But he doesn’t. The pain subsides briefly as the flesh grows back on his bones. It then starts to burn off again along with more pain that the last time. This cycle will never stop. It will last until eternity. There will be no early outs, no paroles, no pardons.. FOREEVER..

Now picture this as being you. Suppose that years ago you were not blessed and did not make the decision to accept Jesus. Suppose everyone assumed you were saved and you had an untimely death. Think of yourself crying out for mercy. Think about that friend of yours who could have told you but put it off because there was always tomorrow. Think about your wife or husband who decided that you would eventually find your own way.

Now think about this person as being your friend, or your wife or husband. Let’s say that he or she had a second chance at life and was spared the horror of Hell. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Do you have that Godly mercy that will lead you to take action?

Next time you talk or think about someone going to Hell will you handle it differently? What will you do about it? What if they died tomorrow?

I think I saw this scene in Ghost.

If we were meant to have greater detail about hell, we would have it in the Scripture. I don't like this at all. :down:

 

[Arthur Brain]

If they wont bend their knee to God, they are full of pride.

So, that's the input needed then and you can reduce every person who hasn't done the same as you in some sense to being in a pride filled state? You don't see the irony in that? You still don't see how boastful you're actually being in condemning others as full of pride?

Nope, because as you keep dismissing, i admit i needed a savior and dont deserve anything but hell also, you keep ignoring that.

You can harp on about yourself or anyone else deserving eternal torments of one sort or another till the cows build a balloon to fly over home. The fact is (as it always is) that nobody who believes in anything like thinks they're going to endure it themselves. Even with the above, your own input - aka admission - is required so anything else is redundant without it. I suppose anyone who rails against a doctrine of interminable suffering is just full of selfish pride right?

lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

God saves those who believe. I love the picture the Lord gave us...the example, if you will, of the serpent on a pole. The children of Israel had been bitten by poisonous snakes (the poison of sin). They were told by Moses that all they needed to do was LOOK at the serpent on the pole and they would live. Some probably ran around, hoping to get rid of the poison, which just spread it more throughout their body. Others probably tried some special herbs. Some may have tried to cut and even suck out the poison. No good. The only thing they could do was LOOK at the serpent on a pole and they would live. We just need to believe (LOOK) to be saved. God expects that much from us and nothing more. Those who refuse to LOOK to God are left to their own devices.

Are you any better or more astute than those who on another day might have looked while you turned away? Think about that for a moment and then apply it to a doctrine of interminable suffering.

 

[glorydaz]

Are you any better or more astute than those who on another day might have looked while you turned away? Think about that for a moment and then apply it to a doctrine of interminable suffering.

I guess you missed the point. Those who looked on another day just got there before me. Anyway, I'm sorry Arthur. I see now I'm in the Back Alley.

Oh, and I don't think you know my thoughts on "interminable suffering", but that's okay.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I guess you missed the point. Those who looked on another day just got there before me. Anyway, I'm sorry Arthur. I see now I'm in the Back Alley.

Oh, and I don't think you know my thoughts on "interminable suffering", but that's okay.

Well, what point have I missed exactly in relation to the subject? I'm not sure how the forum the thread is in is that significant and there's no need to apologize on that score anyway.

I'm addressing 'interminable suffering' in regards to a belief that people suffer such unendingly so if there's any cloudiness on that issue I'd sooner clear that up now. I don't make light whatsoever of suffering full stop.

 

[glorydaz]

Well, what point have I missed exactly in relation to the subject? I'm not sure how the forum the thread is in is that significant and there's no need to apologize on that score anyway.

I'm addressing 'interminable suffering' in regards to a belief that people suffer such unendingly so if there's any cloudiness on that issue I'd sooner clear that up now. I don't make light whatsoever of suffering full stop.

I jumped right in the middle because I saw Angel had posted here and I cam across your post. That was what I was responding to. Your comment about God doing 100% made me think of the portion of scripture I related to you.


I actually don't believe in eternal torment as many people think of it. I believe the second death is what unbelievers will face after the judgment. Revelation 20:14

Now, thanks a lot for dragging that out of me because I'll probably get a lot of guff. :chuckle:

 

[Arthur Brain]

I jumped right in the middle because I saw Angel had posted here and I cam across your post. That was what I was responding to. Your comment about God doing 100% made me think of the portion of scripture I related to you.


I actually don't believe in eternal torment as many people think of it. I believe the second death is what unbelievers will face after the judgment. Revelation 20:14

Now, thanks a lot for dragging that out of me because I'll probably get a lot of guff. :chuckle:

I'm just going to make one comment here, well, besides this one. How can 'death' be cast into anything?

 

[glorydaz]

I'm just going to make one comment here, well, besides this one. How can 'death' be cast into anything?

The same way hell can. No more death and no more hell. Jesus defeated death on the cross and is said to have the keys to death and hell in Revelation 1:18, so I think that has something to do with it.

Of course then you have to consider that hell is actually Hades which some say is the grave. I did a long study on this one time, but like so many other things, I've forgotten a lot. So... :idunno:

 

[Aimiel]

I'm just going to make one comment here, well, besides this one. How can 'death' be cast into anything?

Death and hell are Spirit beings. They are rulers of the darkness of this world.

 

[Arthur Brain]

The same way hell can. No more death and no more hell. Jesus defeated death on the cross and is said to have the keys to death and hell in Revelation 1:18, so I think that has something to do with it.

Of course then you have to consider that hell is actually Hades which some say is the grave. I did a long study on this one time, but like so many other things, I've forgotten a lot. So... :idunno:

In which case it's figurative then? That would certainly make more sense than any sort of literal reading.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Death and hell are Spirit beings. They are rulers of the darkness of this world.

:freak: