Hell and A Lack of Mercy

[red77]

Making good choices has nothing to do with luck.

Doesnt it? So everyone is on a level playing field then? Someone who is brought up in a Christian family has no advantage over a child who is brought up to believe in Islam or another religion?

God draws all men to Himself. The ones that reject Him do so on their own freewill.

God draws ALL men to himself, you didnt need to add anything otherwise God only manages to draw some....

 

[bob b]

Doesnt it? So everyone is on a level playing field then? Someone who is brought up in a Christian family has no advantage over a child who is brought up to believe in Islam or another religion?
God draws ALL men to himself, you didnt need to add anything otherwise God only manages to draw some....

Apparently you don't believe there is such a thing as freewill.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Damned nonsense is what it is.

Not if your one of the damned.

 

[red77]

Apparently you don't believe there is such a thing as freewill.

Not absolute freewill no...

 

[spencer2007]

Sadly, much of what is being said about Christianity here is true. It is most definitely true that many Christians that repent today do so because of the fear of being burned. I believe this largely due to the fact that we have a very watered down Gospel today.

True Biblical Christianity teaches that there is a hell, and there is an eternal punishment. However, it most definitely teaches that hell exists not to scare people but because God is perfectly holy. The Bible teaches that God is all about the glory of His own great name. So how could he allow people who slap Him in the face constantly by disobeying His commands to go unpunished and undisiplined. He can't because He is perfectly holy. But He sent His Son to endure the wrath that we deserve to give us another chance. (demonstrating His awesome mercy)

Whether you want to believe it or not will not change the fact that we all have two choices.

1) Glorify God by humbling yourself enough to believe that you are created for no other reason but to glorify the awesome God who created you and accept the appropriation for your sins that Christ gave by enduring God's wrath.

or

2) Glorify God by suffering eternal seperation from Him and getting exactly what you, me, and everyone else deserves for our rebellion against Him.

 

[Ktoyou]

He dies. Three demons grab him and drag and carry him down through the Earth. .

yes, I see the film “Ghost” too

 

[spencer2007]

Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

 

[red77]

Sadly, much of what is being said about Christianity here is true. It is most definitely true that many Christians that repent today do so because of the fear of being burned. I believe this largely due to the fact that we have a very watered down Gospel today.

True Biblical Christianity teaches that there is a hell, and there is an eternal punishment. However, it most definitely teaches that hell exists not to scare people but because God is perfectly holy. The Bible teaches that God is all about the glory of His own great name. So how could he allow people who slap Him in the face constantly by disobeying His commands to go unpunished and undisiplined. He can't because He is perfectly holy. But He sent His Son to endure the wrath that we deserve to give us another chance. (demonstrating His awesome mercy)

Whether you want to believe it or not will not change the fact that we all have two choices.

1) Glorify God by humbling yourself enough to believe that you are created for no other reason but to glorify the awesome God who created you and accept the appropriation for your sins that Christ gave by enduring God's wrath.

or

2) Glorify God by suffering eternal seperation from Him and getting exactly what you, me, and everyone else deserves for our rebellion against Him.

You cannot take the 'scare tactic' out of the message of an eternal suffering place of torment, it can also hardly exist for the sake of 'dicsiplining' because that is purposeful whereas pointless suffering is not....

 

[spencer2007]

You cannot take the 'scare tactic' out of the message of an eternal suffering place of torment

I agree, hell is a very scary place. My point is, hell and eternal suffering are not the message, a Holy God is.

it can also hardly exist for the sake of 'dicsiplining' because that is purposeful whereas pointless suffering is not....

I'm not totally sure what you mean here. The "disciplining" is not pointless suffering. It has a purpose, The Glory of God.

You're user status thing says that you are a Christian. Would you share some of your thoughts and beliefs about this subject? I think that we would be better able to discuss this if we know what each others beliefs are and where we are coming from.

 

[red77]

I agree, hell is a very scary place. My point is, hell and eternal suffering are not the message, a Holy God is.

unfortunately the orthodox mesage is of a Holy God who has created a place or state of existence of eternal pointless suffering

I'm not totally sure what you mean here. The "disciplining" is not pointless suffering. It has a purpose, The Glory of God.

You're user status thing says that you are a Christian. Would you share some of your thoughts and beliefs about this subject? I think that we would be better able to discuss this if we know what each others beliefs are and where we are coming from.

Discipline by its very definition implies purpose, whenever a loving parent discilplines a child it is for the childs best interest and has constructive intent,

i'm not one for labels myself but i would fall cloest to Universalist in terms of my belief, I believe that God has a plan and a will to restore all of what he creates unto himself, orthodox doctrine teaches that most of the world will be lost to some hellhole and I cannot see how in any way the pointless suffering of helpless beings brings golry to God

 

[freelight]

Love SUPREME..........

Love SUPREME..........

***


The drawing of God is for the soul to fulfill its purpose of being in union with its Creator, and eternally prosper in divine Love and Will. = eternal Life.

Since Gods Nature is Love itSelf.....Love is eternally being all that Love IS.

The ministry of mercy is an eternal dispensation for all souls capable of regeneration.





paul​

 

[freelight]

Just for the halibut.......

Just for the halibut.......

~*~*~

Ah, an 'older' thread on 'hell',....fantastic

Besides 'hell' being a 'myth', and there being at least 4 words in the Bible that are translated into the English word 'hell',....we've got a lot to 'toast' over. (and don't mind the crispy critters :Chuckles: )

My expose and studies on ECT (eternal conscious torment) here in 'hell' are certainly related to 'hell' in general, but we must define our terms, meanings and context on the subject, where a lot of 'dove-tailing' often takes place. Some can get 'red-hot' over this.

Now whether we're talking about a trash dump outside of Jerusalem, a prison for fallen angels, the place of the dead (the grave) or assuming the metaphoric 'lake of fire' is somehow 'hell',...we've got a host of definitions here to suit anyone's palate.

~*~*~

Against the sentence of 'eternal punishment' or 'torment'

 

[aikido7]

As I follow the threads of this forum and read the comments and responses, I have realized that many in the church lack what I call a God-level mercy. When you can talk about someone going to Hell, without being the slightest bit concerned about it, it indicates to me that you do not understand, or choose to ignore the tragedy of anyone spending eternity in Hell. It is not something you should talk about with any degree of joy or humor in it. It is a tragedy and if there is not some degree of sadness in your voice then you are lacking in mercy. So, what I am going to talk about here is mercy and Hell.

When something is so unpleasant, so ugly, so terrible or so painful, people have a tendency to avoid the subject. They do not want to hear about it, see it, learn about it or discuss it. That coupled with the fact that scripture is somewhat lacking and what there is, is somewhat vague, is why so many Christians do not have a grasp of the true nature of Hell…what it is really like. I am going to lead you through a scenario of what it is like for someone who dies and is taken to hell. I am not going to go into detail as to how I know this, except to say that it is personal revelational knowledge. My hope is that by sharing this with you, you may be a little more serious and concerned when the subject of someone going to Hell comes up.

He dies. Three demons grab him and drag and carry him down through the Earth. . He ends up in a huge cavern, kind of lying on the side of a hill. He seems to be embedded in it and unable to move. He looks down at himself and think that he is OK. Suddenly flesh starts to fall off of his bones. It falls off in clumps and the next time he looks, there are thousands of worms crawling through his bones. Fear, sadness and regret grip his soul as he realizes that he is in Hell for eternity. Off in the distance he can hear screaming that never seems to stop. Later, three demons come and grab him and start carrying him off. They take him to a large cavern that is filled with pits in the ground as far as you can see. These pits are six feet in diameter and four feet below the top is a miniature lake of molten lava. Each pit has lost soul in it trying to get out. He notices that the flesh will burn off and then grow back and burn off again. Blood curdling screams are everywhere. As they pass each pit, some of the lost cry out for mercy. He hear one say: “Jesus, save me!” They finally reach an empty pit. He is thinking: “Oh no, please, no!” The demons throw him into the empty pit. The intense pain is of a magnitude that he is sure that he will pass out. But he doesn’t. The pain subsides briefly as the flesh grows back on his bones. It then starts to burn off again along with more pain that the last time. This cycle will never stop. It will last until eternity. There will be no early outs, no paroles, no pardons.. FOREEVER..

Now picture this as being you. Suppose that years ago you were not blessed and did not make the decision to accept Jesus. Suppose everyone assumed you were saved and you had an untimely death. Think of yourself crying out for mercy. Think about that friend of yours who could have told you but put it off because there was always tomorrow. Think about your wife or husband who decided that you would eventually find your own way.

Now think about this person as being your friend, or your wife or husband. Let’s say that he or she had a second chance at life and was spared the horror of Hell. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Do you have that Godly mercy that will lead you to take action?

Next time you talk or think about someone going to Hell will you handle it differently? What will you do about it? What if they died tomorrow?

I believe Jesus was merciful and I no longer believe in a literal Hell.
But just in case there IS such a place, I also believe Jesus will be there as well, handing out free ice water.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Well ok if you say so.
Wonder why he told you that?
I believe there will be seperation from God, I have no idea what seperation will be and for how long...I know God is a good God and hell for no purpose just isn't so.

The folk who are merciless are the folk who strengthen the hands of the wicked saying "go in peace, it will be well with you" like somebody would pass by a burning house without raising the alarm.

It is a deceit born out of cowardice.

Moreover folk that hold there is no hell have a very light view of the awfulness of sin...as though all that Christ had to endure was a few slaps, the lengths to which the Son of God was willing to go, the extent of His suffering is the sure indication of the destiny of the unrepentant wicked.

 

[freelight]

Eternal Love............

Eternal Love............

The folk who are merciless are the folk who strengthen the hands of the wicked saying "go in peace, it will be well with you" like somebody would pass by a burning house without raising the alarm.

It is a deceit born out of cowardice.

Not necessarily,....for any good/sound person would be concerned or warn someone of their sinful actions or harmful behavior, naturally. That shows they have mercy towards others, because they value and have such love for themselves and their own sanity/peace. - this concerns how ones actions are affecting them in the present and any consequences for such actions when the reaping of their sowing ensues. These 'effects carry out in this life and in the life to come, as long as a soul is conscious. It also follows that a soul may also repent as long as a soul is able to do so,...in this life or the life to come. (or in any life-time really).

Moreover folk that hold there is no hell have a very light view of the awfulness of sin...as though all that Christ had to endure was a few slaps, the lengths to which the Son of God was willing to go, the extent of His suffering is the sure indication of the destiny of the unrepentant wicked.

Notice this is only if you hold to some kind of vicarious atonement model of Jesus dying on the cross, presupposing that Jesus must have had to go thru such suffering to save anyone from an eternal hell (and this 'hell' is also part of the corresponding 'belief-system'). Those who don't believe in ECT (eternal conscious torment), either see the wholly evil or unrepentant as dying(they actually 'perish') as the full consequence of their iniquity...or see suffering as a kind of chastisement/discipline....a purifying and reforming of sinners resulting in their re-turning to 'God' (universal reconciliation).

We've exposed ECT here and elsewhere (see all commentary links)

Original blog-portal here (from older thread against ECT)

 

[Angel4Truth]

The folk who are merciless are the folk who strengthen the hands of the wicked saying "go in peace, it will be well with you" like somebody would pass by a burning house without raising the alarm.

It is a deceit born out of cowardice.

Moreover folk that hold there is no hell have a very light view of the awfulness of sin...as though all that Christ had to endure was a few slaps, the lengths to which the Son of God was willing to go, the extent of His suffering is the sure indication of the destiny of the unrepentant wicked.

And its very merciful to protect those who honor Gods way from those who refuse it. Take a look at this world and what sin has caused.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Not necessarily,....for any good/sound person would be concerned or warn someone of their sinful actions or harmful behavior, naturally. That shows they have mercy towards others, because they value and have such love for themselves and their own sanity/peace. - this concerns how ones actions are affecting them in the present and any consequences for such actions when the reaping of their sowing ensues. These 'effects carry out in this life and in the life to come, as long as a soul is conscious. It also follows that a soul may also repent as long as a soul is able to do so,...in this life or the life to come. (or in any life-time really).



Notice this is only if you hold to some kind of vicarious atonement model of Jesus dying on the cross, presupposing that Jesus must have had to go thru such suffering to save anyone from an eternal hell (and this 'hell' is also part of the corresponding 'belief-system'). Those who don't believe in ECT (eternal conscious torment), either see the wholly evil or unrepentant as dying(they actually 'perish') as the full consequence of their iniquity...or see suffering as a kind of chastisement/discipline....a purifying and reforming of sinners resulting in their re-turning to 'God' (universal reconciliation).

We've exposed ECT here and elsewhere (see all commentary links)

Original blog-portal here (from older thread against ECT)

We are practised in the simplicity of God's word.

 

[fzappa13]

~*~*~

Ah, an 'older' thread on 'hell',....fantastic

Besides 'hell' being a 'myth', and there being at least 4 words in the Bible that are translated into the English word 'hell',....we've got a lot to 'toast' over. (and don't mind the crispy critters :Chuckles: )

My expose and studies on ECT (eternal conscious torment) here in 'hell' are certainly related to 'hell' in general, but we must define our terms, meanings and context on the subject, where a lot of 'dove-tailing' often takes place. Some can get 'red-hot' over this.

Now whether we're talking about a trash dump outside of Jerusalem, a prison for fallen angels, the place of the dead (the grave) or assuming the metaphoric 'lake of fire' is somehow 'hell',...we've got a host of definitions here to suit anyone's palate.

~*~*~

Against the sentence of 'eternal punishment' or 'torment'

You understand the translational dilemmas far better that most Christian aspirants ... the majority of which hold views on the subject that are as likely influenced by Dante's "Inferno" as any linguistic study they likely never bothered to engage in to begin with.

I gave up trying to help folks sort it out some time ago ... you know the old saw about horses and water? But, I will say this, you make note of the difficulties that await those sifting through the Greek when a much simpler and direct solution to this problem awaits those who will follow the term "Hell" through the Hebrew. After all, we are sifting through the writings of Jews are here we not?

 

[freelight]

I'd question such 'simplicity'.....

I'd question such 'simplicity'.....

We are practised in the simplicity of God's word.

:noid:

If 'simplicity' implies 'naivety',...then I'd trade that with intelligence. Ignorance helps no one.

However,...if by 'simplicity' is meant common sense, integrity and sanity, then you'll employ such in the 'interpretation' and 'translation' of the text, and not just take it 'literally' since much language is 'figurative'. We 'interpret' religious writings with reason, logic and 'conscience'...since truth would never violate or frustrate these in the dealings of God and man.

If you'd actually like to research my commentaries and consider the points being shared, you might expand your consciousness to consider things that are pertinent to the subject and might change your mind about presuppositions or assumptions. A student of truth is ever re-evaluating and researching his views, opinions or conclusions to arrive at better ones as more information or revelation comes forth. ECT is insane. We've also discussed the translation of the greek word 'aion' and its adjectival forms which do NOT infer or mean 'eternal', 'everlasting' or 'unending' unless its adjectival form is relating to or describing a subject or being like 'God' himself. Otherwise and most often....'aion' always pertains to an 'age' (indefinite period of time, 'dispensation', a certain 'duration'.)



pj

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yes the bible is written for simple folks, not for folks who try to twist every word to make it fit their whims.

or is it any use traversing land and sea till you find a linguist who give you the interpretation you desire.

Eternal means eternal.