God's Truth
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Not of by works = no ceremonial works.
A gift = no ceremonial works.
Faith alone = dead faith.
A gift = no ceremonial works.
Faith alone = dead faith.
Having received salvation, what is next?
- Thread starter oatmeal
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oatmeal
Well-known member
Show me where Paul says ceremonial works!
Everyone is rewarded for believing.
Read Mark 9:23
Read about Abraham in Romans 4
Read Hebrews 11 (where the word "faith" erroneously, the word is believing.
oatmeal
Well-known member
a gift to you is not a gift if any of your works paid for it.
whether ceremonial or otherwise
God's Truth
New member
Jesus saves us all on his own and he chooses to save those who obey. See John 14:23, and Acts 5:32.
Grace is that a friend of God's does not have to offer sacrifices anymore just to be near His Spirit, for His friend merely has to believe that Jesus' blood washes him clean of the sins he repents of, and he becomes the temple.
God's Truth
New member
You can't shame me for replying to something you said in this thread.
God's Truth
New member
Paul says WORKS OF THE LAW. The works of the law are ceremonial works.
Paul doesn't ever say faith alone without any obedience.
Romans 3:2 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
He doesn't say 'law'.
He doesn't say 'obedience'.
Think about it more carefully.
Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.
Jesus wasn't speaking about dead faith.
All the scriptures where Jesus says to obey, they do not get nullified by the scriptures that say believe.
Abraham obeyed. So it isn't about Abraham believing and not obeying.
It is about Abraham before and after the ceremonial work of CIRCUMCISION.
oatmeal
Well-known member
I am not, if you are being shamed it is not originating from me.
You want to talk about salvation, that is not what this thread is about
It is about God's expectations of us after we have received the gift of salvation.
If you wish to discuss what you and I seem to actually agree on, well, you don't need me to give you permission to start a thread on that topic.
oatmeal
Well-known member
The circumcision is an act of believing on the part of Abraham and his progeny.
If it was done ceremoniously then it missed the point.
God refers to having the heart circumcised. Ie, sensitive to God's words, his written word, the logos.
The works of the law include keep the feasts, obeying all the laws, commandments, statutes, ordinances...that God had written down for the benefit of the children of Israel directly and us indirectly, for we are not under the law for righteousness.
Executing homosexuals, rapists, idolaters, kidnappers, etc was not a mere ceremony, it was one of the ways to keep the nation of Israel spiritually clean.
Those who simply went through the motions of keeping the law ie, ceremoniously, were not believing, they were going through the motions.
I am still waiting for you to show me where Paul says "ceremonial works"
We were saved by grace, not of works, lest any man should boast.
Are you telling me that you were saved by doing non ceremonial works?
Would you care to list those non ceremonial works in the law that you kept and by which you saved yourself?
I did not do any works of the law to earn salvation, I met the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10 and I was given the gift of salvation.
Now, have freely received God's gift of salvation to me, I am discussing what God expects of me.
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oatmeal
Well-known member
One wonderful verse that tells us what God expects of us is Ephesians 6:10
"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might"
This is not optional, it is a commandment and from a believing point of view a promise of God that we can be strong in Him.
We have no excuse ever to be weak in the Lord.
We can always be strong in the Lord in any of life's challenges including the wiles of the Devil.
We can stand strong against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might"
This is not optional, it is a commandment and from a believing point of view a promise of God that we can be strong in Him.
We have no excuse ever to be weak in the Lord.
We can always be strong in the Lord in any of life's challenges including the wiles of the Devil.
We can stand strong against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
God's Truth
New member
Don't you even know what you do? You just got through saying to get back on topic. My posting did not throw this thread of topic. How ignorant for you to make it into something that it is not. I don't feel ashamed by you, so why did you say if I am being shamed? Do you really think the Holy Spirit is your private accomplice to your error?
That is about salvation.
I am talking about what is expected of us after we are saved. How you ever get that is not about salvation is beyond me.
God's Truth
New member
Are you kidding? Circumcision is a ceremonial act.
God told Abraham to get circumcised in the flesh.
That came after Abraham.
Circumcision in the flesh began with Abraham and it is the seal of the old law and the sign of the covenant.
Right, those things are not the WORKS OF THE LAW. Those things are things all must obey.
That is what works of the law is, ceremonial works.
I gave you scripture where Paul says not of works of the law.
You need to show where Paul says we are saved by believing and not obeying.
Show it now or concede.
Show one instance anywhere ever where Paul or anyone rebukes someone for obeying God for any reason.
Show that there is a wrong time to obey God.
Show if you happen to obey Jesus to be saved, such as repent of your sins, show where you have added a work and are now condemned.
The boasting is in the ceremonial works that no longer save.
The Jews used to be able to boast in the ceremonial works.
Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.
Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--
Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.
People are only saved by believing and obeying Jesus. We no longer have to do ceremonial works because Jesus cleans us.
You want to be a teacher but you don't understand much do you. I have been explaining how the ceremonial works are the works that no longer save and you ask which ceremonial works saved me.
You want to be a preacher of truth and you can't even tell the truth about what I said.
What do you think those scriptures say you do not have to do? What do they say you have to do?
God expects you to continue to obey. Would you like the scriptures?
God's Truth
New member
We are saved when we confess our sins and call on Jesus' name. However, after being saved, we must live up to what has already been given us.
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election.
Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.
Colossians 1:10
so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Colossians 2:6
So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him,
1 Thessalonians 2:12
encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.
1 Thessalonians 4:1
As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election.
Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.
Colossians 1:10
so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Colossians 2:6
So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him,
1 Thessalonians 2:12
encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.
1 Thessalonians 4:1
As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.
God's Truth
New member
Train ourselves. Work out our salvation.
Luke 6:40
A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.
1 Corinthians 9:25
Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.
1 Timothy 4:7, 8
Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Titus 2:4
Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,
Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Hebrews 12:11
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Luke 6:40
A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.
1 Corinthians 9:25
Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.
1 Timothy 4:7, 8
Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Titus 2:4
Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,
Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Hebrews 12:11
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Do you have a point to make?
What is it that you believe?
If you wish to argue, I am not interested.
What is your point?
Where are you going with all this?
Everyone who has received the gift of salvation did so by meeting the tow requirements of Romans 10:9-10
Now that we have been saved God expects us to come to the knowledge of the truth, to live that salvation out of love, in believing looking forward to the hope of Christ's return.
God's Truth
New member
Why are you hostile? Don't you like the scriptures that tell us what to do after we are saved?
KingdomRose
New member
No one "receives" salvation until the end of the age when Jesus comes to end all suffering and death. He said:
"The one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (Matt.24:13, NASB)
No one is saved eternally until the end. It's amazing how many people ignore those words. It takes effort. It is real work, and that is why Paul said we must "put on the complete suit of armor from God" to battle Satan and this wicked world under his control.
Ephesians 6:10-18
I John 5:19
"The one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (Matt.24:13, NASB)
No one is saved eternally until the end. It's amazing how many people ignore those words. It takes effort. It is real work, and that is why Paul said we must "put on the complete suit of armor from God" to battle Satan and this wicked world under his control.
Ephesians 6:10-18
I John 5:19
God's Truth
New member
What don't you get about believing all the scriptures? We cannot put even one aside.
We are saved now and must stand firm till the end and be saved then too.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Unless one distinguishes between the time of Jesus' work in progress, the gospels, and the time period after his work was accomplished, this age of grace, we will live in confusion about what is the past and present regarding receiving salvation.
The accomplished works of Jesus Christ changed the rules from the law based gospels to the grace based epistles.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Excuse me?
Am I being hostile?
Yes, this thread is about what we are to do after we have received salvation, we are to use it according the instructions of God, thus developing the gift of salvation that God gave to us.
There is only one gift of salvation.
However, having received the gift we are required to use it, to "work it out"
We do not want it to ignore it we want to make full use of it.
How? By doing what God tells to do to use it.