Has All Been Fulfilled? Have Heaven and Earth Passed?

[clefty]

The "contract" was the Law aka the commandments - you know, the ones God said to do, all of them [613 by Rabbinic count]? or they would be cursed?

Ummm...nope the contract was to get these people enslaved in Egypt to their ancestral home promised in a previous contract with Abraham...see? covenants do not anull each other...the terms to get them there were the same as for their father Abraham had....obedience in all things...faithful

ps: Jesus did not keep the Law perfectly. The law required animal sacrifices for sin. Jesus was perfect and without sin when He was born. He did not have to keep the Law from being cursed or to get blessed or to "choose life". What a pile of huey. I do not know why this false statement has made it's way on the table [Jesus had to keep the Law perfectly, yadda yadda].

Well now I have to fix another text to say what you are claiming...

"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have NOT kept my Father's commands and remain in his love."

 

[clefty]

“So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the Lord your God has banished you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, 3 then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. 5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.

I don't think this has been fulfilled.

Will it be a temporal bloodline ancestorial Israel with a temple they rebuilt again?

Or do you expect a descending from heaven new Jerusalem with Him as king of spiritual Israel of all nations...

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Ran into one of these today:




and they always stumble over thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not commit adultery, etc


because if the whole thing vanished away, then there's no longer a prohibition on killing, or stealing, or committing adultery, right?

 

[Lilstu]

Will it be a temporal bloodline ancestorial Israel with a temple they rebuilt again?

Or do you expect a descending from heaven new Jerusalem with Him as king of spiritual Israel of all nations...

God promised Abraham and his descendants the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession.
"And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession: and I will be their God."
Genesis 17:8



If you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
“And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.” Galatians 3:29

 

[jamie]

Is that when He said seventh day sabbath keeping was over and we are to worship on Sunday?

The seventh day of rest is an integral part of creation. Those who ignore it are rejecting the Creator.

Rejecting the Creator is not a good thing.

The weekly Sabbath foreshadows the millennial Sabbath.

 

[jamie]

If you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
“And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.”

We are joint heirs with Christ of all that exists.

Hebrews 2:5-8 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels. But one testified in a certain place saying: “What is man that you are mindful of him, or the son of man that you take care of him? You have made him a little lower than the angels, you have crowned him with glory and honor and set him over the works of Your hands. You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”

For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.​

The phrase "a little lower" means for a little while less than the angels. We will judge angels who sinned.

 

[jamie]

That He was risen on Sunday doesn't mean that is when He rose...and just because the tomb was found empty that morning doesn't mean it was emptied that day.

Mark 16:9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week...​

Early on the first day of the weeks means at sundown of the Sabbath.

This was the first day of the seven weeks leading to Pentecost which was the next day after the seventh Sabbath.

 

[jamie]

Will be? You don't consider the Holy Spirit descending like tongues of flames causing the gathered crowd to speak in other languages a fulfillment of the Law being written into the hearts and minds of all peoples of all languages a Pentecost?

Hardly a warmup.

 

[clefty]

God promised Abraham and his descendants the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession.
"And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession: and I will be their God."
Genesis 17:8

Yes even Zionists use this text and are playing a long "fulfillment" game called Babylonian world rule...

If you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
“And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.” Galatians 3:29

Used less often by them...understandably...although some Christian Zionists conflate the idea of the new world that is to come or worse the kingdom within and the New World Order...

 

[Lilstu]

Yes even Zionists use this text and are playing a long "fulfillment" game called Babylonian world rule...





Used less often by them...understandably...although some Christian Zionists conflate the idea of the new world that is to come or worse the kingdom within and the New World Order...

The point is that the Law has not been fulfilled because Abraham did not receive what was promised to him.

 

[clefty]

The point is that the Law has not been fulfilled because Abraham did not receive what was promised to him.

Ok...good.

and thus the Law remains (immutable)to point to a future fulfillment when this earth will pass away...

 

[Nihilo]

The Lord rose from the dead on the first day of the week.

Oh yeah? On a Sunday was it?

Yeah, and?

 

[clefty]

Mark 16:9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week...​

Early on the first day of the weeks means at sundown of the Sabbath.

This was the first day of the seven weeks leading to Pentecost which was the next day after the seventh Sabbath.

Mark 16:8 ended the original gospel...verse 9 to the end was added later...

In studying Sabbath I am aware that Christians began to worship on Sunday's citing a resurrection on First Fruits Festival to be the reason.

But I don't see where He gives the ok on that.

But some Christians feel that worshiping idols is ok merely because "the word became flesh" at all.

There was no eyewitness account of when He rose and claims to it being on Sunday are all bad translations and arguing from silence or even inserting later additions...

Sabbath keeping diminished as less was understood about the festivals and calendar counts. "My people perish from a lack of knowlege"...

 

[jamie]

Mark 16:8 ended the original gospel...verse 9 to the end was added later...

Yes, Mark's gospel was incomplete without acknowledging Jesus fulfilled the only sign he said he would give that he was the Christ. Mark 16:9 says he fulfilled that sign.

If you choose to believe he didn't fulfill the sign that is your choice, but I'll be happy to go through it with you.

 

[clefty]

Yes, Mark's gospel was incomplete without acknowledging Jesus fulfilled the only sign he said he would give that he was the Christ. Mark 16:9 says he fulfilled that sign.

If you choose to believe he didn't fulfill the sign that is your choice, but I'll be happy to go through it with you.

Oh He fulfilled it, all right...and by that I don't mean destroyed it either...

Nor did He give the ok to replace seventh day Sabbath with Sunday services...

 

[jamie]

Oh He fulfilled it, all right...and by that I don't mean destroyed it either...

The sign of Jonah was three days and three nights in the earth. Since he was entombed as the first day of Unleavened Bread began he was resurrected three days and three nights later as the first day began. This day was the first day of the weeks leading to Pentecost. Seven weeks had to be complete and the next day was Pentecost.

Jesus' resurrection on the first day was a fulfillment of the law and had nothing to do with Sunday observance which dates back to the Sumerian religion. The Sumerian worship day was picked up by the Babylonians and then by the Egyptians and then by the Catholics. Protestants go along with the Catholic day of worship endorsing the authority of the Catholic church.

Like mother, like daughters.

 

[TweetyBird]

The land of Iraq and Saudi Arabia are part of the land of Israel and yet there is a big fuss over the west bank of the Jordan.

How does that have anything to do with what is written in Joshua 21 when God said, all was fulfilled that was promised?

 

[TweetyBird]

The ten lost tribes are still missing.

Ezek 37
15 The word of the Lord came again to me saying, 16 “And you, son of man, take for yourself one stick and write on it, ‘For Judah and for the sons of Israel, his companions’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them for yourself one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 When the sons of your people speak to you saying, ‘Will you not declare to us what you mean by these?’ 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 The sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes. 21 Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.

The sticks don't get joined until AFTER the resurrection..

There were never any "lost tribes". The remnant of all the tribes gathered together with Judah, Benjamin, and Levi yo re-dedicate the Temple and the walls of Jerusalem during the time of Nehemiah and Ezra. There was no longer "the house of Israel"/northern kingdom and the "house of Judah"/southern kingdom from that point on. They were known as one Kingdom - the House of Israel/The Jews, and indicated as such throughout the NT.

 

[TweetyBird]

Unless one knows where to look.

The descendants of Jacob are like the sands of the seashore.

And we shouldn't forget the Arabs, Isaac's brother.

The Arabs, or the descendants of Ishmael were not part of the covenant with Israel given by God.

 

[TweetyBird]

ummm well yes there is minor one...in Him we are as if we kept them all...so its curse is lifted as long as we are in Him or He in us keeping us faithful to them...

One cannot keep any of the Mosaic Law since Christ. It is impossible. There is no "in Him" about the Mosaic Covenant Law. The people of Israel were commanded to keep all the Law of Moses or cursed. If you think the Law of Moses still stands, then if you don't keep it 100% perfectly, including all the sacrifices, you are going to be judged by that Law, not through Jesus Christ.

So same lease or rental contract, but a different Landowner different renters...

The contract ended and new contract was given. We are not "renters" and God is not our "Landlord". Your analogy fails on every point.

love God and each other is in the OT wow just wow...even after His death he had to rely on it...And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

No, the commandment that Jesus gave is not found in the Mosaic Law. The one in the Mosaic Law was given to the nation of Israel to keep within her boundaries/community. It was not extended to those without. Jesus gave a NEW commandment - a brand new, never heard before, fresh commandment - that we are to love one another and He loves us and lay our lives down for each other. That is not the Mosaic Law.

Heb 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Yup unbelief disallows one to enter rest...but the sabbath rest they entered remains for us the people of God...and as believers that Day spoken of will be when we do cross the spiritual Jordan and rest in paradise...

You missed the part about there being ANOTHER DAY. It's not the Sabbath Day, but ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER PLACE.

7 again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day
.

He is Lord of the Sabbath is true but now you take that day away Which gives Him Lordship and call it worthless...

If one is in Christ, and in His Rest, why are you calling that worthless? In Christ we are resting from our labors just as God rested on the 7th day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

There remains a yoke...it is easy...but it remains

If the yoke is easy, it's not trying to keep the Sabbath which was given to the nation of Israel as a sign to them only, in which animal sacrifices were required. Keeping the Sabbath was a yoke and burden that Israel could not bear. Over and over again, God pleaded with Israel through His prophets to come back, but they refused and rebelled over and over and over again. Then, when God sent His own Son, "His chosen people" put Him to death [parable of Jesus]. As always, a remnant of the Jews continues to be saved.