God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

[jamie]

Christ was the father of Adam.

 

[beameup]

In order for their to be 'us', there must be three gods. The Trinity is not three gods.

Psalm 2: "the LORD" + "His Anointed" = 2
------------------------------------------------
Also I heard the voice of the Lord ['Adonay],
saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for US?
Then said I [Isaiah], Here am I; send me. - Isaiah 6:8

I + US

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Crucible,

Jewish tradition has always held that angels partake in many of God's actions- you all sitting there acting surprised about it, as if it's just some wrong thing for all the legions of angels in Heaven to be doing more than twiddling their thumbs, is quite frankly irritating.

God didn't refer to Himself as 'Us', and He doesn't refer to His actions as 'Our making'. Also, just because one authors something doesn't mean it was done alone.

I agree with you that the “us” of Genesis 1:26 is speaking of God and the angels. This is confirmed by David’s comments and summary of the Genesis account where he says that Yahweh has made man a little lower than the angels, that is, man is made in the image and likeness of Yahweh and the angels.

Psalm 8: 4-6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou (Yahweh verse 1) hast made him a little lower than the angels (Hebrew Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

The KJV translation of Elohim here by the word angels shows that Elohim in some contexts speaks of the angels, or God working through the agency or ministration of angels. Thus Psalm 8:5 clearly separates out the plurality in Genesis 1:26 to be God the Father and the angels.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel,
and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
I am the first, and I am the last;
and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:6

YHWH + YHWH = YHWH

 

[Crucible]

Psalm 2: "the LORD" + "His Anointed" = 2
------------------------------------------------
Also I heard the voice of the Lord ['Adonay],
saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for US?
Then said I [Isaiah], Here am I; send me. - Isaiah 6:8

I + US

:rotfl:

The 'I' is Isaiah.

Just give up, and stop making up things. What do you have against angels having purpose and serving God?

 

[jamie]

Christ was the father of Adam, therefore there are two fathers who are God.

Adam's father and Jesus' father, different fathers. Two of them.

 

[beameup]

:rotfl:

The 'I' is Isaiah.
Just give up, and stop making up things.

Your argument is with the Word of God. :bang:

Here, "bang" your head on this:

Thus saith the LORD [YHWH] the King of Israel,
and his Redeemer the LORD [YHWH] of hosts;
I am the first, and I am the last;
and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:6

 

[6days]

It was a beginning but not the beginning.

Did you tell God He phrased things poorly in Genesis 1:1?
Did you correct Jesus when He refers to the beginning of Creation? Your beliefs border on heretical Jamie. Your willingness to compromise what Moses said, leads to a distorted Gospel. John 5:46,47

 

[6days]

No translation exists which emphasizes 'us' or 'our' as 'HE' or 'I AM', because what you propose is utterly made up.

What have I proposed? That God alone is our Creator?

The fact of the matter is that God created first the angels

and the angels assisted thereafter.

That isn't Biblical. The creation account says nothing about God having helpers as He spoke the universe into existence. "I am the one who made the earth and created people to live on it. With my hands I stretched out the heavens. All the stars are at my command." Is.45:12

'Stretching the Heavens and Earth' is notcreating, it is*substantiating.

God created the Heavens and the earth. Read the first verse in the Bible...then keep reading.

Also,if you pay attention, you are really implyingthree gods, which is not the Trinity...

Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one

 

[Crucible]

The KJV translation of Elohim here by the word angels shows that Elohim in some contexts speaks of the angels, or God working through the agency or ministration of angels. Thus Psalm 8:5 clearly separates out the plurality in Genesis 1:26 to be God the Father and the angels.

Elohim in the certain context means Heavenly beings collectively. I pretty much gathered that from the first time seeing the word because of how it is used in the particular passage- but people go through the entirety of the Bible attributing nothing to the angels, whom God appoints, because they've trained to have a narrow interpretation. As you see, they always try to insert the Trinity, despite that the Trinity was a hidden revelation yet to be revealed.

 

[Crucible]

What have I proposed? That God alone is our Creator?

God is the Creator- that does not mean that the angels sat by the wayside either. What purpose do you think angels have, to sit there looking holy?

That isn't Biblical.

According to what? Let's see:

The creation account says nothing about God having helpers as He spoke the universe into existence. "I am the one who made the earth and created people to live on it. With my hands I stretched out the heavens. All the stars are at my command." Is.45:12

If God created the angels, and they assisted in creating God's blueprint, then guess what? God creating all still holds up.

And
Stretching out the heavens is not creating, it is sustaining.


This is the most ridiculous debate I've had in a while- how do you all go on denying the plainly obvious
You have to stick the Trinity everywhere the Bible contradicts you, even though the Jews didn't know anything about a Trinity and they were the one's who recorded the words- are you saying God tricked them?

Just concede to the facts_

 

[6days]

God is the Creator- that does not mean that the angels sat by the wayside either. What purpose do you think angels have, to sit there looking holy?

Well..... You could do a search and find several responsibilities they have. Helping God create is not in their job description.

Stretching out the heavens is not creating, it is sustaining.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

This is the most ridiculous debate I've had in a while- how do you all go on denying the plainly obvious

What is plainly obvious is you think God had angels helping create. The only basis for that might be the angels were praising God at creation (Job38). Also keep in mind that angels were part of what was created in the first six days so...possibly day 1 but we can't be sure.

You have to stick the Trinity everywhere the Bible contradicts you, even though the Jews didn't know anything about a Trinity and they were the one's who recorded the words- are you saying God tricked them?

You seem to be the one who keeps arguing about the trinity. I wouldn't base trinity doctrine just on the verses mentioned in the OP. But, the verses are taken into consideration along with the totality of Scripture.

 

[beameup]

Jews didn't know anything about a Trinity and they were the one's who recorded the words- are you saying God tricked them?

Modern day Jews don't know anything about the Trinity because they've had 2,000 years to suppress pre-70 A.D. Judaism, which clearly believed in Two-Powers in Heaven... plus they believed in the Spirit of God [ruach 'elohim]. The very choice of the God-breathed word 'elohim is a PLURAL noun.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. - Daniel 7:13-14

 

[jamie]

Did you tell God He phrased things poorly in Genesis 1:1?

In the beginning Christ created the heavens and the earth. The heavens he created were the earth's sky and the universe.

The earth was not originally created wasted and ruined. It became that way later, but in its original form the earth was beautiful and the angels sang and shouted for joy. And then Lucifer decided he would be like the Most High, but he failed and Christ saw his fall.

Then in the recreation of the earth for humans we know the sun existed because the earth had liquid water, it was not a frozen waste.

And so on.

 

[Crucible]

You seem to be the one who keeps arguing about the trinity. I wouldn't base trinity doctrine just on the verses mentioned in the OP. But, the verses are taken into consideration along with the totality of Scripture.

They were never taken into consideration, because none of it expresses the Trinity but the angels. From Tertullian on, it has always been deduced from referencing Isaiah alongside the New Testament. No proper theologian would agree with your notion because it is arbitrary and baseless.

 

[Lilstu]

Scripture tells us that God alone is the Creator.*
Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone

God tells us that He alone created.*

Donald Trump claims to have built many buildings. But did trump do all the work? Trump may be the builder but the work was done by employees. God may be the creator but the work was probably done by his angels.

 

[patrick jane]

Donald Trump claims to have built many buildings. But did trump do all the work? Trump may be the builder but the work was done by employees. God may be the creator but the work was probably done by his angels.

All things were created by Jesus Christ -

Colossians 1:16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-19 KJV -

Pick up the book and read, the Bible is a book of details

 

[jamie]

God may be the creator but the work was probably done by his angels.

Not even.

Genesis 1:3 Then God said...​

Christ spoke and it was so, no help needed. Awesome display of power.

Then "God said..." in verses 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24, 26.

Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it...

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings beameup,

Also I heard the voice of the Lord ['Adonay], saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for US? Then said I [Isaiah], Here am I; send me. - Isaiah 6:8
I + US

The context of these words is the vision of the King / Priest enthroned in the Most Holy Place of the Temple surrounded by interactive Seraphim. Thus the “I” is the King / Priest and the “US” are the Seraphim.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings beameup,

The context of these words is the vision of the King / Priest enthroned in the Most Holy Place of the Temple surrounded by interactive Seraphim. Thus the “I” is the King / Priest and the “US” are the Seraphim.

Isaiah is the direct object of the verse.
Isaiah was a human being, not a seraph.
The verse is self-explanatory - it is a "conversation"
between two divine beings, followed by a statement by a human-being.