But is it a valid? Does it apply?
God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness
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But is it a valid? Does it apply?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Epistle of Barnabas
CHAPTER 5
The reason for the Passion of Christ
1 For it was for this reason that the Lord endured to deliver up his flesh to corruption, that we should be sanctified by the remission of sin, that is, by his sprinkled blood.
2 For the scripture concerning him relates partly to Israel, partly to us, and it speaks thus: "He was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities, by his stripes we were healed. He was brought as a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb dumb before its shearer."
3 Therefore we ought to give great thanks to the Lord that he has given us knowledge of the past, and wisdom for the present, and that we are not without understanding for the future.
4 And the Scripture says, "Not unjustly are the nets spread out for the birds." This means that a man deserves to perish who has a knowledge of the way of righteousness, but turns aside into the way of darkness.
5 Moreover, my brethren, if the Lord endured to suffer for our life, though he is the Lord of all the world, to whom God said before the foundation of the world, "Let us make man in our image and likeness," how, then, did he endure to suffer at the hand of man?
6 Learn: -- The Prophets who received grace from him prophesied of him, and he, in order that he "might destroy death," and show forth the Resurrection from the dead, because he needs must be made "manifest in the flesh," endured
7 in order to fulfil the promise made to the fathers, and himself prepare for himself the new people and show while he was on earth that he himself will raise the dead and judge the risen.
8 Furthermore, while teaching Israel and doing such great signs and wonders he preached to them and loved them greatly;
9 but when he chose out his own Apostles who were to preach his Gospel, he chose those who were iniquitous above all sin to show that "he came not to call the righteous but sinners," -- then he manifested himself as God's Son.
10 For if he had not come in the flesh men could in no way have been saved by beholding him; seeing that they have not the power when they look at the sun to gaze straight at its rays, though it is destined to perish, and is the work of his hands.
11 So then the Son of God came in the flesh for this reason, that he might complete the total of the sins of those who persecuted his prophets to death.
12 For this cause he endured. For God says of the chastisement of his flesh that it is from them: "When they shall smite their shepherd, then the sheep of the flock shall be destroyed."
13 And he was willing to suffer thus, for it was necessary that he should suffer on a tree, for the Prophet says of him, "Spare my soul from the sword" and, "Nail my flesh, for the synagogues of the wicked have risen against me."
14 And again he says: "Lo, I have given my back to scourges, and my cheeks to strokes, and I have set my face as a solid rock."
CherubRam
New member
No, it is not valid as a translation of that scripture. God alone created without any help. Gen 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. "Let us" is not scriptural, and it is not correct for the translation into English.
Who did the work of creation and for whom was it done?
CherubRam
New member
Hebrews 2:10
In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists... 1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came... God made the world by Himself according to the Old Testament and New Testament. That is why this verse is questionable: John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
beameup
New member
Is this verse also questionable?
Colossians 1:15-16 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
How about another questionable verse?
Hebrews 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds
John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Is it not possible that the Father created all things through his Son, by his Son, and for his Son?
No, not really. The legions of angels are all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation.
CherubRam
New member
As you can see with these verses there is a problem.
[FONT="]Isaiah 42:8[/FONT]
[FONT="]“I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 43:7[/FONT]
[FONT="]everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory[/FONT][FONT="], whom I formed and made.” [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 48:11[/FONT]
[FONT="]For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another.[/FONT]
Meh.
All instances of speaking in plural are the Trinity :AMR:-
that's supposed to be a reasonable argument over just conceding that God had has His angels pitch in?
It crumbles under it's own desperation
They misuse the Trinity just like they do everything else with scripture and theology. There's not one single thing someone hasn't scourged with heresy, even right down to this simple notion_
beameup
New member
All 3 Members of the Godhead were involved in the CREATION (including the creation of angels).
Your "simple notion" is just that. But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will
fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons - 1 Tim 4:1
Are they not all ministering spirits,
sent forth to minister for them who
shall be heirs of salvation? (re: angels)
- Hebrews 1:14
God never refers to Himself in plural. He's the I AM, not the WE ARE.
You all never had a foundation in the first place to be building on top of it.
Also, you bring up 'deceitful doctrines', but the Jews believed contrary to you through all of history on the matter. And God is not the author of confusion- you are making nothing but a mess of the whole thing.
So give it up, you can't just insert the Trinity or some other thing wherever you want
Greetings again beameup and Prizebeatz1,
Psalm 8:3-5 (KJV): 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou (Yahweh verse 1) hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
This does not teach that all have immortal souls, but that those that believe in Jesus and him crucified and resurrected will receive everlasting life at the resurrection when Jesus returns to establish his Kingdom. Those who do not believe will perish. Concerning Genesis, it is interesting that in Matthew 19:4-5 Jesus quotes and thus endorses Genesis 1 and 2. On what basis do you pick and choose what Scripture you endorse?
Kind regards
Trevor
I am not here to defend your supposed assessment of those I now fellowship and those from earlier days whom I respect for their Biblical expositions. I agree with what I can verify from the Bible, and my discussion here is to consider what the Bible teaches.
I agree, Yahweh is the Creator of man.
Psalm 8:3-5 (KJV): 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou (Yahweh verse 1) hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
John 3:16 (KJV): For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This does not teach that all have immortal souls, but that those that believe in Jesus and him crucified and resurrected will receive everlasting life at the resurrection when Jesus returns to establish his Kingdom. Those who do not believe will perish. Concerning Genesis, it is interesting that in Matthew 19:4-5 Jesus quotes and thus endorses Genesis 1 and 2. On what basis do you pick and choose what Scripture you endorse?
Kind regards
Trevor
beameup
New member
'elohim is a plural noun
Jewish theology considered "Two Powers in Heaven" prior to 70 A.D., and that was not declared "heretical" until the 2nd Century A.D.
Following the rejection of Yeshua Messiah and the total destruction of the Temple, "Judaism" had to be completely recreated and Mosiac Sacrifical Law abandoned.
Exactly, because the biblical author was speaking of the angels. You can ride that 'God breathed' sentiment all day, it doesn't change the fact that a man wrote it to his understanding of what was revealed.
Cool story.
Here's another one: When anti-Trinitarians challenged you all, you instead came up with all this nonsense because you weren't learned enough to refer to Isaiah and compare his statements with the apostles.
That is the origin of the entire idea- it's continued ignorance built upon former ignorance
beameup
New member
You mean like this:
Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this;
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD,
and his Spirit, hath sent Me. - Isaiah 48:16
(1)Lord GOD ['Adonay-YHWH]
(2)Spirit [ruwach 'elohim]
(3)"Me" [Isa 48:12-13,14a]
Prizebeatz1
New member
The literal interpretation of John 3:16 is a misunderstanding that comes from lack of experience with the soul.