Give me biblical support for Christmas.

Town Heretic

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This was not about eating Ham...no Jew would even consider Ham food...especially Christmas Ham...
Jews still don't. But then, they're still looking for the Messiah.

So do you eat human flesh? Why not?
I'm not a cannibal. All sorts of reasons. Do you think the point of proscription was that these animals were inherently evil or that they were simply dangerous to a people who lacked the knowledge of how to eat them safely?

...did Paul lie when he said he continued to keep temple law?
Try quoting the exact scripture you're using if you want us to consider it in context.

Matthew Henry Commentary on Acts 25: 8
25:1-12 ... Preaching Christ, the end of the law, was no offence against the law...Paul was willing to abide by the rules of the law, and to let that take its course. If he deserved death, he would accept the punishment. But if none of the things whereof they accused him were true, no man could deliver him unto them, with justice. Paul is neither released nor condemned. It is an instance of the slow steps which Providence takes; by which we are often made ashamed, both of our hopes and of our fears, and are kept waiting on God.

But if you want to know what he thought about the law, he isn't shy on the point:

Romans 7:4-6

4[FONT=&quot]Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.​
[/FONT]
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.


Did Peter miss something when he understood his vision meant goyim were no longer unclean...and no not to eat them but to preach to them and accept as brothers...as if it meant he could go and get a Ham sandwich...lol
No, he didn't miss the larger point. You just missed the lesser included.

Are you a citizen of Israel or not? Living JUST AS He is or not?
Are you living under a new covenant or aren't you?

Yes yes yes...Let no one judge you in these things...but the body of Christ...

Ellicott's Commentary Colossians 2:16​

(16-19) To the warning against speculative error succeeds a warning against two practical superstitions. The first is simply the trust in obsolete Jewish ordinances (the mere shadow of Christ) with which we are familiar in the earlier forms of Judaism. But the second presents much strangeness and novelty. It is the “worship of angels” in a “voluntary humility,” inconsistent with the belief in an intimate and direct union with Christ our Head.

(16) Let no man therefore judge you.—That is, impose his own laws upon you. See Colossians 2:8. (Comp. Romans 14:3; Romans 14:10, “Why dost thou judge thy brother?” in this same connection.)

In meat, or in drink.—Or rather, in eating and drinking. We see by the context that the immediate reference is to the distinctions of meats under the Jewish law, now done away, because the distinction of those within and without the covenant was also done away (Acts 10:11). (Comp. on this subject the half-ironical description of Hebrews 9:10.) But a study of Romans 14:2; Romans 14:20-21, written before this Epistle, and 1Timothy 4:3, written after it—to say nothing of the tone of this passage itself, or of the known characteristics of the later Gnosticism of the ascetic type—show that these laws about eating and drinking were not mere matters of law, but formed significant parts of a rigid mystic asceticism. Of such, St. Paul declares indignantly (Romans 14:17), “The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.”


These things ARE still shadows pointing to good things to come...not WERE ok? still ARE...thus still binding...
Supra.

And to you fulfilled law means the law was made void annulled.
Well, no. But to you the fulfilled law looks entirely the same and the new covenant is the old one in a new skin? Else, supra.

This has everything to do with Grace...upon receiving it what do you wish to do as a show of appreciation for all that He did and will do for you?
I've frequently argued that gratitude should fuel our desire to express it, for our unmerited deliverance.

How will you declare to others your love as a love with which He loved...
Bear witness to the truth of my commission, let my yes be my yes, my no be my no, love God first and my neighbor as myself, attempt to put into practice in my life the living definition of love scripture first describes and then illustrates in the person of Jesus. Any number of things, really.

How will you show your fruits are in the same family as the older trunk and root you were grafted into...
Am I called to? I'm called to proclaim the truth and the fruits of that gift of grace will come as naturally as sin followed my old nature. A man who is in love will never have to tell you. People who are mightily concerned with making the right appearance run the danger of transforming what should be an act of gratitude and love, finding pleasure in God's pleasure, into a subtle boast and a proud, confused message.

where is this in the scripture?
Right after your Augustine. :plain:

Oh thank you...many were killed for less tolerance...killed for not compromising the Lord of the Sabbath and His way...
One man's compromise is another man's error.

as with eating Ham the Sabbath was NOT a doubtful thing to dispute for a believing Pharisee...Paul was clearly speaking of days to fast on not abrogating a Law of God he himself continued to observe...teaching one thing and practicing another would be a LIE a hypocracy...
Who would expect Jesus to act as though the law was fulfilled before he fulfilled it?

LOL seriously...you don't...he is outside of scripture WAAAAAY out...I didn't quote him as scripture...I quoted him his use of pagan ways including Sunday, to teach another gospel another way...despite fancy words...
Supra and, on the latter point, I've never apologized for being an educated man. I don't aim for grammatical perfection or agonize over word choice. I consider and respond in the moment. If that bothers you to the point where you find yourself commenting on it repeatedly then I'd say its a thing for you to reflect on. It isn't a sin or an encumbrance for me.

You are the one who used him to elevate him, his way, above that which is in scripture...
No, you missed my point, but that's okay.

As if Christmas Ham were the traditions the apostles taught...who died for being uncompromising....
They died proclaiming a new covenant, not an intent to replace the law with a new wrapper. How many animal sacrifices have you made this year anyway?

Absolutely and HalleluYah as His yoke remains, we desire it, it distinguishes us as His bought by Him useful for His good works...gratitude and faith compel works, as salvation needs to be worked out with fear and trembling at times...
So another point of agreement then. Good. It was bound to happen. :chuckle:

I can't think of no Greater Mercy and Grace He gives than by giving us a way to live and to show and prove our love and loyalty for Him...His way...We actually don't keep His law...it keeps us..
Christ keeps us. The law was given to show us the need of him. I can't think of a better way to respond to grace than to live as an expression of that sacrificial, unmerited love, bearing witness to it and living mindfully.
 

6days

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Mickiel

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You can join my family if you wish on Dec 25 next year as we celebrate the birth, death and resurection of our "mighty God". I promise if you join us, we won't use the word Christmas. But... we might drink a little eggnog.

Do you adhere to the belief system / the cult from the links you provided earlier?



No I don't , I just agree with their view on Christmas.
 

clefty

New member
Yeah, sure.

Now pay attention ....

1 Corinthians 6:12 KJV
(12) All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.



1 Corinthians 10:23 KJV
(23) All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


Ain't no little fir tree got any power over me.
Sad that you let one have power over you.

Pick cherries too do you?

So I guess Paul could go and fornicate then eh? the issue in first text...

Or eat meat offered to idols? The issue in the second.

I should just leave it at that but well what is actually sad is not that you reveal your true desire or mislead others who are watching our example but how you wish to read and argue this as if PAUL taught we are able to do whatever whenever we want of that "do what thou wilt" spirit.

You actually think Paul thinks of himself outside of Him who he died to and remains free to do as his carnal desires wish for pleasure...or like you, for a blast?

Immediately after this text he is clear the body is not for fornication we are raised up from our death into Him...joined to Him...why would we ever WANT to celebrate adultery which is fornication which is idolatry...ahem Christmas...

In Him and with a new heart and mind all things are lawful but not expedient is the qualifier...meant to be built up IN HIM...

Wow! you do realize that whatever you want to do IN HIM is different than whatever you want to do OUTSIDE of Him yes? IN HIM all is lawful because you wouldn't even think to do that which is unlawful as your mind is now NOT looking for a blast...but to be MORE LIKE HIM...ya dig?

Now you do NOT wish to fornicate another word for idolatry which is of course doing as the pagans do...even for your own reasons...that classic and typical "but I was thinking of you" is exactly the harlotry Paul is warning against...



Now the second text you think frees you to do whatever whenever you want...

The qualifier here is make sure it edifies, profits others not just your narcississtic gotta be me attention whoring...others are indeed watching and learning from you...you are building a group

Paul's admonishes to be edifying yes we are free to do whatever but AGAIN meaning IN HIM...we are mindful that we are no longer our own but HIS and are to tend to HIS other sheep...our actions build the church and if we eat whatever whenever it will cause some to fall if we continue eating that wonderful kosher steak despite being warned it was offered to idols...eating meat offered to idols is what pagans do...and well WE ARE NOT TO AS THEY DO...

That fir tree might not have influence over you but even the mature believers would ask "What literally possessed your defiled mind into thinking bringing that detestable thing in here was ok...did you forget we are to model an EXAMPLE of Who we are to follow? We are HIS now to do AS He did...how in His NAME is any of this expedient or edifying?"

WOW...all things are now lawful...really?...so worshipping another God...making idols...using his name in vain...keeping another day holy...killing...stealing...lying...dishonoring parents...coveting...

I see some of these shoes still fit you...

I must pray you are mindful as to what is expedient and edifying...

Please remember Paul said we are to establish the Law...wherever we go...

The law you establish reveals the god you worship...
 
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clefty

New member
Jews still don't. But then, they're still looking for the Messiah.
jokes when corrected I see...Mark 7 is not about cleansing meat...but that food does not defile an already defiled mind...only a defiled mind would allow the mouth to ingest a defiled food...and remember at this point food did not include unclean...defiled food here means eating with unwashed hands...which defile the food which is clean every parent knows that...still today...

I'm not a cannibal. All sorts of reasons.
ok then you do not adhere to all flesh is food just as scripture does not teach that all meat is clean...

Do you think the point of proscription was that these animals were inherently evil
you do know how sin works yes? Evil? Even in Noah's time there were clean and unclean for purposes of worship and yes maybe eating...but initially to begin to teach clean and unclean...those for purposes of worship were clean not inherently good...lol

or that they were simply dangerous to a people who lacked the knowledge of how to eat them safely?
lol...how dangerous is it to kill a pig? A horse? You really are entertaining...


Try quoting the exact scripture you're using if you want us to consider it in context.
so he did lie when he said he didn't break the law...witnesses were just not able to arrive in time to testify against his claimed innocence...lol...there are other texts stating his fidelity to all things "Jewish" he even made a vow of it for James...Henry's commentary is compromised with his stating Paul was preaching Christ the end of the law...as He was the goal of the Law...and it would be GROSS offense to the temple law...Jews were confident their God meant what He said when He said it was forever...false witnesses baring false testimony attempted to slander Paul by falsly accusing that he was teaching a change to the law...and end would certainly include change yes?

Matthew Henry Commentary on Acts 25: 8
25:1-12 ... Preaching Christ, the end of the law, was no offence against the law...Paul was willing to abide by the rules of the law, and to let that take its course. If he deserved death, he would accept the punishment. But if none of the things whereof they accused him were true, no man could deliver him unto them, with justice. Paul is neither released nor condemned. It is an instance of the slow steps which Providence takes; by which we are often made ashamed, both of our hopes and of our fears, and are kept waiting on God.
He was neither released nor condemned as he had appealed to a higher court...and none of the things they accused him of were true...

But if you want to know what he thought about the law, he isn't shy on the point:

Romans 7:4-6

[FONT=&]
4[FONT="]Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.[/FONT][/INDENT]
[/B][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][INDENT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=&][FONT=Arial][B]5 [/B][/FONT]For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=&][FONT=Arial][B]6 [/B][/FONT]But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [I]in the oldness of the letter.[/I][/FONT][/COLOR][/INDENT][/quote] understandable place you end the passage...fortunately Paul continues crediting the law for pointing out sin and in essence it saved him as it pointed him out to his need for salvation...a Savior...verse 12 so the the law is holy he maintains and the commandment is holy righteous and good...duh it points to our sin and to our savior...

V 14 the law is spiritual V 16 I agree the law is good it reveals he wishes to to good but can't...as sin lives in him as pointed out by sin v 21 I find this law at work v 22 FOR IN MY INNER BEING I DELIGHT IN GOD'S LAW

It's been a loooong time since I have heard a Christian say that...Paul ends this chapter v25 so then I myself in my MIND am a slave to God's law but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin...the law of sin is death the condemnation not found IN HIM...duh




[quote]No, he didn't miss the larger point. You just missed the lesser included.[/quote] there never was a lesser included or he would have included it...someone would or you wouldn't have to add it jam it in there somewhere in parentheses lol


[quote]Are you living under a new covenant or aren't you? [/quote] I will take that as a no I am not a member of His people wishing to live as He did...as for your silly question of course I am...He modelled how to live in the new covenant before He christened with a toast to a room full of Jews and signing it and sealing it at the cross...please note they still hurried to keep the Sabbath...festivals...and dietary laws...something about NOT being able to add or detract a covenant once the testator is dead...so there you are WWJD? Certainly not eat Sunday ham...lol


[quote]
[COLOR=#552200][FONT=Verdana][INDENT][URL="http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/colossians/2.htm"]Ellicott's Commentary [/URL]Colossians 2:16​

(16-19) To the warning against speculative error succeeds a warning against two practical superstitions. The first is simply the trust in obsolete Jewish ordinances (the mere shadow of Christ) with which we are familiar in the earlier forms of Judaism. But the second presents much strangeness and novelty. It is the “worship of angels” in a “voluntary humility,” inconsistent with the belief in an intimate and direct union with Christ our Head.

(16) Let no man therefore judge you.—That is, impose his own laws upon you. See Colossians 2:8. (Comp. Romans 14:3; Romans 14:10, “Why dost thou judge thy brother?” in this same connection.)

In meat, or in drink.—Or rather, in eating and drinking. We see by the context that the immediate reference is to the distinctions of meats under the Jewish law, now done away, because the distinction of those within and without the covenant was also done away (Acts 10:11). (Comp. on this subject the half-ironical description of Hebrews 9:10.) But a study of Romans 14:2; Romans 14:20-21, written before this Epistle, and 1Timothy 4:3, written after it—to say nothing of the tone of this passage itself, or of the known characteristics of the later Gnosticism of the ascetic type—show that these laws about eating and drinking were not mere matters of law, but formed significant parts of a rigid mystic asceticism. Of such, St. Paul declares indignantly (Romans 14:17), “The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.”


Oh my...I still remember what was expected of goyim at the Jerusalem council...


I agree I thing it is super that the shadows still are...still point to the good things to come and let only the body of Christ judge you on it...but I think you mispelt super...


Well, no. But to you the fulfilled law looks entirely the same and the new covenant is the old one in a new skin? Else, supra.
yes super...the house is not divided with two sets of laws with and duh the covenant is the same it was all meant to reconcile us...ALL of us...and now this covenant had a new signature to it...it wasn't on the old one...


I've frequently argued that gratitude should fuel our desire to express it, for our unmerited deliverance.
good express it how...as lawlessness? Deliverance from what? And even now keeping it is not meriting anything...we keep it for having been saved...SUPER


Bear witness to the truth of my commission, let my yes be my yes, my no be my no, love God first and my neighbor as myself, attempt to put into practice in my life the living definition of love scripture first describes and then illustrates in the person of Jesus. Any number of things, really.
love God and your neighbor as yourself is exactly in the OT as for LOVE even the pagans do that but what they don't do is LOVE AS HE DID...so yes OBEY HIM LOVE as HE LOVED is to fulfill the Law...as He kept His Father's Law...


Am I called to? I'm called to proclaim the truth and the fruits of that gift of grace will come as naturally as sin followed my old nature. A man who is in love will never have to tell you. People who are mightily concerned with making the right appearance run the danger of transforming what should be an act of gratitude and love, finding pleasure in God's pleasure, into a subtle boast and a proud, confused message.
good grief...of course you were called to join HIS people and as a citizen obey the house rules out of gratitude because that is what you want to do...duh His pleasure is that you do His will
To love not as the pagans but as He did...


Right after your Augustine. :plain:
"my" Augustine was to show how pagan tradition was accepted and useful to advance the corporate church your Augustine was to claim that Sunday keeping was the new M.O....oh hey! We have the same Augustine...lol


One man's compromise is another man's error.
right and the martyrs died not in error but the "Heroes" of the church like our pagan following Augustine and oh yeah Constantine surely compromised and well that is error to me...glad we know which side is which


Who would expect Jesus to act as though the law was fulfilled before he fulfilled it?
who would expect Jesus to act as though the law was destroyed at all? Those who distort the meaning of fulfill and He is the end of the law...end meaning goal and fulfill means to accomplish...like a recipe once completed we don't throw it away do we? Goodness...does faith abolishes the law? Heaven Forbid! Another of Paul's doozies rarely quoted by Christians..


Supra and, on the latter point, I've never apologized for being an educated man. I don't aim for grammatical perfection or agonize over word choice. I consider and respond in the moment. If that bothers you to the point where you find yourself commenting on it repeatedly then I'd say its a thing for you to reflect on. It isn't a sin or an encumbrance for me.
LOL was talking about the fancy words spinning a golden web for Augustine to fall into...not you...but good for you...


No, you missed my point, but that's okay.
no I got it...you used him to validate through his fancy words and sophistry the continuance of Pharisee practice namely redefining what the Sabbth was...they were constantly harassing the Lord of the Sabbath but He set them straight about it all you know, being Lord of the Sabbath and all...


They died proclaiming a new covenant, not an intent to replace the law with a new wrapper.
BINGO! exactly my point...the new covenant gospel was no intent to replace the law with a new wrapping...the Jews accused them of this very thing...of changing the law...ending the law...replacing the law...putting a new wrapping on it to appeal even to goyim...but those accusation were false...just like the false ones hurreled at our Saviour to kill Him but He upheld the Law as well...spent the first day of the new covenant a Sabbath btw...at rest...just like He spent His first day in the Edenic covenant made with Adam...HALLELUYAH

How many animal sacrifices have you made this year anyway?
mercy rather than sacrifice silly you really don't pay attention do you...no more need for blood shed...no temple...my life a living sacrifice in a living temple...


So another point of agreement then. Good. It was bound to happen. :chuckle:
oh sure is why we should squabble...faith is in the hearing...and we seek to live and love more like Him not less...our fruits more like His not less


Christ keeps us. The law was given to show us the need of him. I can't think of a better way to respond to grace than to live as an expression of that sacrificial, unmerited love, bearing witness to it and living mindfully.

Yes yes...expressing by how and what and when we do what we do...His yoke the Law we establish declares the God we serve

As it is to be His will on earth just like it is in heaven...is why I recommend getting used to no Sunday ham btw
 

clefty

New member
Yeah, sure.

Now pay attention ....

1 Corinthians 6:12 KJV
(12) All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.



1 Corinthians 10:23 KJV
(23) All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


Ain't no little fir tree got any power over me.
Sad that you let one have power over you.

Apparently the little fir tree does have power over you...you can't keep from using it in false worship...

Lol...I am still reeling from your use of those two texts...

"All things are lawful for me..."

Heaven forbid what a defiled mind would do with "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"...

Lol...ugh
 

Mickiel

New member
^6 days and no biblical support for Christmas , Easter or the Trinity. This is a public shame.

I tell you what ,I'll give you Christians another one, give me biblical support for "Tithing in the New Testament."

In my study, the original church did not Tithe at all, not for 300 years after Christ died. Show me anyone Tithing in the new Testament.

Hello.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
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Apparently the little fir tree does have power over you
Nope. No power at all.

you can't keep from using it in false worship
I don't use a fir tree for worship at all.
IT's A FIR TREE, just sitting there not doing nothing at all, not speaking, not seeing, not knowing.
I see it as it is ----- a fir tree. Not an idol, not a god.


"All things are lawful for me..."
Yeah, it's scripture.

So is this:

Romans 8:38-39 KJV
(38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
(39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​



Ain't no non speaking, non seeing, non knowing fir tree ever gonna separate me from Christ.

I think you are forgetting just who's righteousness saved you.
(HINT - it wasn't your righteousness.)

Romans 5:18 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.​
 

Mickiel

New member
How about giving us biblical support for Tithing in the New Testament? Can we pry some bible out of you on that deception?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
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^6 days and no biblical support for Christmas , Easter or the Trinity. This is a public shame.

I tell you what ,I'll give you Christians another one, give me biblical support for "Tithing in the New Testament."

In my study, the original church did not Tithe at all, not for 300 years after Christ died. Show me anyone Tithing in the new Testament.

Hello.
I really wish you would read scripture, instead of relying on internet links to tell you what scripture says.

Matthew 23:23 KJV
(23) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
 
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