ECT Get Off The Fence!

[Doom]

There is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood.

That's correct. The blood of Jesus was shed for all sin of all men for all time. It is finished.

Jesus came the purpose of blood atonement in Matthew 26:28, Luke 1:77, 24:47.

John the Baptist proclaimed the same Truth in Luke 3:3.

Peter taught the same in Acts 2:38, 10:43.

As did Paul in Romans 3:25.

All true, yet no man is saved by His sacrifice for sin, they must receive His life.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

If you are not in Christ, you are still dead. His death makes it possible to receive that which saves us - His life.

Calvin never understood this, and MADE UP his false gospel that has led millions of people into an elitist cult.

It is terrible error to say that sinners are not saved by the death of Jesus Christ.

Paul said, and I agree with him, you don't. Your problem, not mine.

I hope and pray His Holy Spirit will lead you into this Gospel Truth.

God doesn't hear you. He doesn't know you. You don't believe His testimony concerning His Son.

 

[Nang]

Doom made the claim. I'm asking what the upshot of his claim is. The bible answers many questions asked on this forum. Should we just close up shop?

Plus, Doom has made inconsistent claims.

In his OP he posts that Jesus Christ died for all sins of all men.

Then in his later post, he claims that Jesus death saves no one.

This needs to be clarified.

 

[nikolai_42]

Plus, Doom has made inconsistent claims.

In his OP he posts that Jesus Christ died for all sins of all men.

Then in his later post, he claims that Jesus death saves no one.

This needs to be clarified.

Maybe he thinks that atonement for sins doesn't save?

 

[Nang]

OK, we tagged each other.

But how can sinners' due wages for their sins be paid except through death? Jesus died our death in our stead.

His resurrection from our death penalty paid, is the legal basis and grounds for our receiving His imputed righteousness and life.

The death of Jesus Christ cannot be eliminated or played down in our proclamation of full Gospel Truth.

 

[Doom]

Are the sins of of a man who is unsaved - and who will never be saved - atoned for?

Of course.

2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Cor 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[elohiym]

The doctrine of limited / definite atonement must be abolished from any presentation of the gospel.

First the doctrine of total depravity and its permutations must be abolished from any presentation of the gospel. That's the starting point, imo.

 

[nikolai_42]

Of course.

2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Cor 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So why is that man still unsaved?

 

[Nang]

Maybe he thinks that atonement for sins doesn't save?

He contradicts himself very wrongly in order to deny the reality of the New Covenant and as excuse for no longer partaking in the sacrament of Communion.

 

[Doom]

Plus, Doom has made inconsistent claims.

Nope, you're just brainwashed to believe what is not true.

In his OP he posts that Jesus Christ died for all sins of all men.

Exactly

Then in his later post, he claims that Jesus death saves no one.

Correct.

This needs to be clarified.

I've clarified it for you MANY times, as does the apostle Paul.


NO ONE IS SAVED BY HIS DYING FOR THEIR SINS.

WE ARE SAVED BY RECEIVING HIS LIFE, WHICH WAS MADE POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF HIS SACRIFICIAL DEATH.

Simple. Really, it is.

 

[Nang]

First the doctrine of total depravity and its permutations must be abolished from any presentation of the gospel. That's the starting point, imo.

All men are condemned under the Law. We must include this reality in our gospel message, to let souls know what they need to be saved from.

 

[Doom]

He contradicts himself very wrongly in order to deny the reality of the New Covenant and as excuse for no longer partaking in the sacrament of Communion.

Nonsense. You have ZERO evidence of a contradiction. You're just stupid, and cannot understand what the death of Jesus accomplished.

 

[Doom]

First the doctrine of total depravity and its permutations must be abolished from any presentation of the gospel. That's the starting point, imo.

Fine, start a thread. :thumb:

Does not negate the fact that a limited / definite atonement is a demonic doctrine that no one can be saved by if believed.

 

[Nang]

Nope, you're just brainwashed to believe what is not true.

Exactly

Correct.

I've clarified it for you MANY times, as does the apostle Paul.


NO ONE IS SAVED BY HIS DYING FOR THEIR SINS.

WE ARE SAVED BY RECEIVING HIS LIFE, WHICH WAS MADE POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF HIS SACRIFICIAL DEATH.

Simple. Really, it is.

All sinners have been consigned to die, due to their sins. Until that death sentence is executed, there is no pardon and no life.

Jesus bore the sins of His people unto death and substitutionally paid their penalty; freeing them to resurrect to eternal life by faith in Him.

That is the one true Gospel.

 

[Doom]

Yes, the death of Jesus Christ saves the sinner.

No it doesn't. Men are saved by receiving His life when they believe that He died for their sins. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, yet not all men believe / accept that, and so they remain dead.

 

[nikolai_42]

NO ONE IS SAVED BY HIS DYING FOR THEIR SINS.

WE ARE SAVED BY RECEIVING HIS LIFE, WHICH WAS MADE POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF HIS SACRIFICIAL DEATH.

So His death - which was a ransom for many - bought those He would not ultimately save?

You are dividing up the death and resurrection to the point that one (His death) almost becomes superfluous in salvation.

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
Hosea 13:14

EDIT :

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 5:9

Surely you wouldn't say that a redeemed man can be an unsaved man...or would you?

 

[oatmeal]

Those on this site, who claim to believe the gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4 have got to get off the fence (if you haven't already).

Either Jesus died for OUR sins is true, or it is not. A limited / definite atonement excludes all men from the gospel message, that the sacrifice of Jesus was for all sin, for all men, for all time.

To believe in a limited / definite atonement is to believe in a false message, that is in total contradiction with the gospel.

You cannot have it both ways. Get off the fence. Stand firm in the truth, and aggressively and vehemently oppose ALL those who defend a limited / definite atonement. Any compromise makes you an enemy of the cross, just as they are.

I Corinthians 15:1-4 states that indisputably clearly.

KJV

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Amp

And now let me remind you [since it seems to have escaped you], brethren, of the Gospel (the glad tidings of salvation) which I proclaimed to you, which you welcomed and accepted and upon which your faith rests,
2 And by which you are saved, if you hold fast and keep firmly what I preached to you, unless you believed at first without effect and all for nothing.
3 For I passed on to you first of all what I also had received, that Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for our sins in accordance with [what] the Scriptures [foretold],
4 That He was buried, that He arose on the third day as the Scriptures foretold,

ESV

Now I would remind you, brothers,[a] of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

He died for our sins, not our sins except _____ , he died for our sins

 

[elohiym]

But how can sinners' due wages for their sins be paid except through death? Jesus died our death in our stead.

What actually happened is you died for your sins, which is why you were dead in sin before being raised to life and why your old man was crucified and is presently dead. The wages of sin is eternal death, the eternal death of the old man.

His resurrection from our death penalty paid, is the legal basis and grounds for our receiving His imputed righteousness and life.

The righteousness and life we receive are given by promise, not law.

The death of Jesus Christ cannot be eliminated or played down in our proclamation of full Gospel Truth.

It should be properly understood.

 

[oatmeal]

Fine, start a thread. :thumb:

Does not negate the fact that a limited / definite atonement is a demonic doctrine that no one can be saved by if believed.

So, part of salvation is not having the sin of erroneous doctrine?

If Jesus died for our sins would that not include the sin of erroneous doctrines?

 

[Doom]

All sinners have been consigned to die, due to their sins.

All men are dead because of one man's transgression.

"For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ."

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Until that death sentence is executed, there is no pardon and no life.

All men are dead and in need of life. Jesus came that we might have life. It is the Spirit that gives life. He who has the Son has the life.

You know NOTHING of the gospel and cannot be saved by your anti-gospel message.

Jesus bore the sins of HisALL people

Fixed it.

 

[john w]

How many people believe that Jesus died for Judas Iscariot?

How many people, besides yourself, since you, on record, assert that there is just one piece of good news in the book, believe that Judas Iscariot preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV?