Doom
New member
You are a universalist?
There is no grace for believing a lie.
Men are saved by believing the truth concerning Jesus (THE gospel).
If men can believe anything, then logically all men would be saved, and they are not.
ECT Get Off The Fence!
- Thread starter Doom
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There is no grace for believing a lie.
Men are saved by believing the truth concerning Jesus (THE gospel).
If men can believe anything, then logically all men would be saved, and they are not.
Doom
New member
Your disagreement is with Paul, not me.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Nonsense. His death for all sin, for all men, for all time, is the only reason men are justified to receive His life. (Just showed you).
Made up. We are reconciled by the Lord Jesus Christ's death. We are saved by His resurrected life.
Doom
New member
He is still dead, if he does not believe the gospel and receive life. :duh:
nikolai_42
Well-known member
And how does a dead man believe?
elohiym
Well-known member
That depends on what you mean by "under the Law," and what law specifically. John's parents were not condemned under the law (Luke 1:6). God gave Israel laws they could live in and laws they could not live in (Ezekiel 20:25). Which laws specifically are you claiming condemned all men, and which ones condemned all from conception? Certainly not the laws that were good, that God gave them to live.
Okay, but the reality isn't total depravity or the other doctrines that logically follow from it, e.g. limited atonement.
elohiym
Well-known member
How did Paul believe?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Grace.
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2 Timothy 1:8-9
Doom
New member
The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise"
It is the Spirit that gives life, which you receive AFTER you HEAR and BELIEVE.
Your confusion about what death is, has you accepting a false belief system.
Death is separation. Man was separated (dead) from God because of sin. Death is not ceasing to exist. The gospel has the power to save men when they hear it and believe it. Dead men can hear, they just cannot will themselves to life, they must receive the gift of life by believing what they hear.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
What you are concluding, is that men only find salvation by their own works of belief, rather than by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
You eliminate His righteous works as being necessary to show grace to sinners unto their salvation.
You are blind to the fact that there is no grace nor salvation for any, until the Law of God is fulfilled and satisfied.
Man cannot meet that criteria, but the Son of Man certainly did, as Mediator, satisfying all the legal requirements to free His people from their bondage to sin, death, and the devil.
That is the good news of God.
elohiym
Well-known member
I seem to recall Paul being made blind and some other events that led to his conversion.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
. . . More inconsistency and contradictions. Illogical argument.
Because he refused to receive the love of the truth that he would be saved. He rejected the offer of salvation.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
elohiym
Well-known member
It always comes back to total depravity. :sigh:
Genesis 4:7 If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.
Luke 1:6 They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.
The same way a dead man (separated from God) goes to Taco Bell. What a stupid question.
You are quite the perverter (twister) of words. You filthy degenerate hag.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Is this the same spirit that the world cannot receive?
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17
I never said a dead man has ceased to exist. But you have put the power of the gospel of salvation in man, not in God. You have placed its power in the inherent ability of man (dead men, at that...). It is their will to believe that determines their salvation. Isn't that what you are saying?
Doom
New member
It's not "rather" you dimwit. It's because we believe in His death for our sins, and His resurrected life that saves us.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth"
You're a liar, a demon possessed pervert, and an idiot.
Go to hell, if that is what you want. I have provided ample proof from the Bible that limited / definite atonement is a doctrine of demons. You have offered nothing more that your demonic theories and made up opinions.
Men are saved by grace through faith, having believed the gospel that Jesus died for OUR (all men's) sins, and was raised from the dead so that we can receive His life. You, and your demonically inspired cult hate this.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
All men exist under the Old Coventant of Works/Law until they are freed from the condemnation of breaking that covenant (which all men do).
Only the New Covenant of Grace frees any sinners out from under the old covenant. And such requires legal satisfaction which Christ accomplished as Redeemer.
Well, of course my view is that the two doctrines are both part of the same Gospel.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Okay...that doesn't contradict what I've said. Genesis 3:15 prophesies that Jesus would crush Satan's head (big picture). The details are worked out in time, but ultimately it was that crushing that we saw in Christ's life, death and resurrection. Likewise grace. It is foreordained, according to Paul, but that doesn't mean events that work that in to Paul (and out in the earth) deny grace.