ECT Get Off The Fence!

Doom

New member
Those on this site, who claim to believe the gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4 have got to get off the fence (if you haven't already).

Either Jesus died for OUR sins is true, or it is not. A limited / definite atonement excludes all men from the gospel message, that the sacrifice of Jesus was for all sin, for all men, for all time.

To believe in a limited / definite atonement is to believe in a false message, that is in total contradiction with the gospel.

You cannot have it both ways. Get off the fence. Stand firm in the truth, and aggressively and vehemently oppose ALL those who defend a limited / definite atonement. Any compromise makes you an enemy of the cross, just as they are.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Those on this site, who claim to believe the gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4 have got to get off the fence (if you haven't already).

Either Jesus died for OUR sins is true, or it is not. A limited / definite atonement excludes all men from the gospel message, that the sacrifice of Jesus was for all sin, for all men, for all time.

To believe in a limited / definite atonement is to believe in a false message, that is in total contradiction with the gospel.

You cannot have it both ways. Get off the fence. Stand firm in the truth, and aggressively and vehemently oppose ALL those who defend a limited / definite atonement. Any compromise makes you an enemy of the cross, just as they are.

Bah.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Those on this site, who claim to believe the gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4 have got to get off the fence (if you haven't already).

Either Jesus died for OUR sins is true, or it is not. A limited / definite atonement excludes all men from the gospel message, that the sacrifice of Jesus was for all sin, for all men, for all time.

To believe in a limited / definite atonement is to believe in a false message, that is in total contradiction with the gospel.

You cannot have it both ways. Get off the fence. Stand firm in the truth, and aggressively and vehemently oppose ALL those who defend a limited / definite atonement. Any compromise makes you an enemy of the cross, just as they are.
There's no doubt about it that the man Christ Jesus gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time!


1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


If it weren't true none of us would have had any hope at all as we Gentiles were in time past without hope and without God in the world being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise!

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


BUT NOW is the "due time" message that even we were included ("all men")!


Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


There's a lot of fence walking on a lot of doctrine, but the fact that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them should NEVER be one of them!


2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


It's the very word of reconciliation that was committed unto us! Without it, we have no good news (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)!
 

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
Those on this site, who claim to believe the gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4 have got to get off the fence (if you haven't already).

Either Jesus died for OUR sins is true, or it is not. A limited / definite atonement excludes all men from the gospel message, that the sacrifice of Jesus was for all sin, for all men, for all time.

To believe in a limited / definite atonement is to believe in a false message, that is in total contradiction with the gospel.

You cannot have it both ways. Get off the fence. Stand firm in the truth, and aggressively and vehemently oppose ALL those who defend a limited / definite atonement. Any compromise makes you an enemy of the cross, just as they are.

Wait, are you now saying that someone who rejects limited atonement but doesn't "vehemently" oppose it is also a heretic?
 
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Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
ALL ALLMOST NEVER MEANS ALL (IN THE CARNAL SENSE)
Matt 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:33-34
33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
John 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 18:11
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Heb 2:13
13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
John 6:44-48
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 "I am the bread of life.
John 6:65-69
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John 17:1-2
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:6-7
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
John 17:10-12
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)

XXX All is a figure of speech. We can see that to Jesus all was all those that God had given Him. Which is all those who become Christians and are born again. All those that follow Jesus' example.

Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
John 17:12
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 13:1
1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
1Thes 3:11-13
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
Acts 2:39
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
John 6:37-40
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
(NKJ)
 

Doom

New member
Wait, are you now saying that someone who rejects unlimited atonement but doesn't "vehemently" oppose it is also a heretic?
I am saying (and correctly) that it is just as egregious to give approval to those that preach a limited / definite atonement as it would be to give approval to those who reject His deity or His resurrection.

The doctrine of limited / definite atonement must be abolished from any presentation of the gospel. To include it, is to preach a false message, which excludes the essential doctrine that Christ died for ALL.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Wait, are you now saying that someone who rejects unlimited atonement but doesn't "vehemently" oppose it is also a heretic?

I narrowed it down for you. You reject the gospel. You reject that the Lord Jesus Christ died for sin. You are outside the faith and going to hell (thank God!).
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
I do. Even more incredible, He died for you.

Well, if you believe Jesus died for Judas, the son of perdition, and He died for me even though you say I am going to hell, then you teach that the cross work of Jesus Christ is not efficacious and failed in His purpose.

If only Judas and I were not justified by the blood of Christ, then you still also proclaim a limited atonement.

Nor only did the sacrifice of Jesus fail to provide unlimited atonement, but you claim the sufficiency and worth of Christ's was limited, deficient and lacking and unable to save.

Now that is a crummy and false gospel for sure . . .
 

Doom

New member
Well, if you believe Jesus died for Judas, the son of perdition, and He died for me even though you say I am going to hell, then you teach that the cross work of Jesus Christ is not efficacious and failed in His purpose.
Again, this is why my statements about believing in a limited / definite atonement are opposed to the message of the gospel. Thank you for making it abundantly clear. We do in fact believe in two different messages.

(Hope Lon and Knight are reading this)

The death of Jesus for all sins, of all men, for all time (it is finished) fully satisfied the Father. The sin issue was propitiated. The wages of sin being death, all men are now justified to receive life Rom 5:9;18, which alone is what saves us Rom 5:10

You have mocked this in the past, and will do so again, as you do not believe the gospel.

If only Judad and I were not justified by the blood of Christ, then you also proclaim a limited atonement.

Pay close attention:

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Rom 5:9

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

Nor only did the sacrifice of Jesus fail tprovide unlimited atonement, but you claim the sufficiency of Christ's was deficient and lacking and unable to save.
No, and this is why you are in a cult. His death saves NO ONE. Men are saved by receiving His life when they hear the gospel, and believe it.

Now that is a crummy and false gospel for sure . . .
It is to those who accept the demonic doctrine of limited / definite atonement.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Again, this is why my statements about believing in a limited / definite atonement are opposed to the message of the gospel. Thank you for making it abundantly clear. We do in fact believe in two different messages.

(Hope Lon and Knight are reading this)

The death of Jesus for all sins, of all men, for all time (it is finished) fully satisfied the Father. The sin issue was propitiated. The wages of sin being death, all men are now justified to receive life Rom 5:9;18, which alone is what saves us Rom 5:10

You have mocked this in the past, and will do so again, as you do not believe the gospel.



Pay close attention:

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Rom 5:9

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

No, and this is why you are in a cult. His death saves NO ONE. Men are saved by receiving His life when they hear the gospel, believe it, and receive His life.

It is to those who accept the demonic doctrine of limited / definite atonement.

You do not deny Limited Atonement. You deny Atonement altogether.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
I absolutely do. Liar.

The propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus was for ALL sin, for ALL men, for ALL time. It is finished.

There is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood.

Jesus proclaimed the purpose of blood atonement in Matthew 26:28, 24:47.

John the Baptist proclaimed the same Truth in Luke 1:77, 3:3.

Peter taught the same in Acts 2:38, 10:43.

As did Paul in Romans 3:25.

This is why you also deny the present Covenant of Grace established by Jesus Christ for His church. He ratified Hiis New Covenant with His own blood offering made on the cross.

It is terrible error to say that sinners are not saved by the death of Jesus Christ.

I hope and pray His Holy Spirit will lead you into this Gospel Truth.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Well, if you believe Jesus died for Judas, the son of perdition, and He died for me even though you say I am going to hell, then you teach that the cross work of Jesus Christ is not efficacious and failed in His purpose. . . .

No he doesn't. You reject that the free gift and the preach against the gospel.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Those on this site, who claim to believe the gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4 have got to get off the fence (if you haven't already).

Either Jesus died for OUR sins is true, or it is not. A limited / definite atonement excludes all men from the gospel message, that the sacrifice of Jesus was for all sin, for all men, for all time.

To believe in a limited / definite atonement is to believe in a false message, that is in total contradiction with the gospel.

You cannot have it both ways. Get off the fence. Stand firm in the truth, and aggressively and vehemently oppose ALL those who defend a limited / definite atonement. Any compromise makes you an enemy of the cross, just as they are.

Are the sins of of a man who is unsaved - and who will never be saved - atoned for?
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
The Bible answers your question. Why ask it? Do you have an ulterior motive?

Doom made the claim. I'm asking what the upshot of his claim is. The bible answers many questions asked on this forum. Should we just close up shop?
 
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