Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[Shasta]

Exactly, that's why they shall believe because they are His Sheep John 10:26-29.

Christ was the Surety of the Sheep from Everlasting Heb. 7:22, and He was risen from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20


The Elect, Christ's Sheep, the Beloved of the Lord, were chosen to Salvation and Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13; 1 Thes. 1:4.

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

In the last judgment Jesus Himself defines who are His sheep. He says that when He was hungry his sheep fed Him, when He was thirsty they gave Him something to drink and when He was naked his sheep clothed Him (Matthew 25:35-36). By contrast the goats did not.

The Master did not interrogate each group about whether or not they had made a one-time profession of faith or whether they believed the five points of Calvinism. Jesus gave their actions as the reason each group was consigned to their respective fates (Matthew 25:39-41) Since this was about their ACTIONS and choices you might label what they did "works of the law" but Lord did not see it that way.

 

[beloved57]

John 3:18 In this life everything is in a state of flux. A person who does not believe today may come to salvation tomorrow. Paul did not believe at first, not until the Lord revealed Himself to him on the Damascus road.

Evidently you are in disagreement with the Reformer Martin Luther who taught that unbelief is the ultimate sin people are judged for.

The Book of Mark agrees:

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
(Mark 16:16)

Where does Romans 7:4 say that anyone who does not believe in theistic determinism is not covered by the atonement? If that were so then every Christians for the first 300-400 years of Church history would have been damned for no one during that time believed in one petal of T.U.L.I.P.

Rabbit trail comments away from the points I made.

 

[steko]

In the last judgment Jesus Himself defines who are His sheep. He says that when He was hungry his sheep fed Him, when He was thirsty they gave Him something to drink and when He was naked his sheep clothed Him (Matthew 25:35-36). By contrast the goats did not.

The Master did not interrogate each group about whether or not they had made a one-time profession of faith or whether they believed the five points of Calvinism. Jesus gave their actions as the reason each group was consigned to their respective fates (Matthew 25:39-41) Since this was about their ACTIONS and choices you might label what they did "works of the law" but Lord did not see it that way.

The last judgement?

 

[beloved57]

…30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:31)

The NT evangelists always expressed confidence that whoever believed in the gospel could be saved. Yet if they had been honest Calvinists they could not have been sure that this man or anyone in particular was ordained to salvation

Evasion and Rabbit trail comments!

 

[Shasta]

Regarding unbelief and the Wrath of God!

Most false religions do pervert this scripture to states this about the Wrath of God Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The not believing the Gospel of God's Grace isn't what occasions God's Wrath, the broken law against them does that Rom 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

So their not believing is occasioned by them still being under Gods Wrath and bound to the broken law of God, so that means that Christ never died for them and satisfied Gods Law demands against them. So therefore God's Wrath continues to abide on them!

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him (John 3:36)

Here believing in the Son is shown to be the opposite of obeying Him. If person does not believe in Jesus he is automatically in disobedience because God has commanded all men everywhere to repent(Acts 17:30)

 

[Shasta]

Evasion and Rabbit trail comments!

This is exactly what you say when faced with questions you cannot answer.

 

[beloved57]

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him (John 3:36)

Here believing in the Son is shown to be the opposite of obeying Him. If person does not believe in Jesus he is automatically in disobedience because God has commanded all men everywhere to repent(Acts 17:30)

Evasion and Rabbit trail!

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[Shasta]

The last judgement?

Well, I can leave off last and say the Judgment meaning when all the nations will be gathered before the throne.

 

[beloved57]

This is exactly what you say when faced with questions you cannot answer.

More Evasion and Rabbit trail!

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[Shasta]

Evasion and Rabbit trail!

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You just cannot handle adult-level debate, can you?

 

[beloved57]

You just cannot handle adult-level debate, can you?

Persistent in evasion and Rabbit trail.

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[Shasta]

Rabbit trail comments away from the points I made.

John 3:18 plainly says men who do not believe already stand under condemnation. Their unbelief is what puts them in that position and keeps them there. The meaning of the verse is simple.

 

[beloved57]

John 3:18 plainly says men who do not believe already stand under condemnation. Their unbelief is what puts them in that position and keeps them there. The meaning of the verse is simple.

Evasion and Rabbit trail !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Master did not interrogate each group about whether or not they had made a one-time profession of faith or whether they believed the five points of Calvinism. Jesus gave their actions as the reason each group was consigned to their respective fates (Matthew 25:39-41) Since this was about their ACTIONS and choices you might label what they did "works of the law" but Lord did not see it that way.

Let us look at the fate of those who will be saved:

"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt.25:33-34).​

The following verse tells us exactly who it is that will inherit the kingdom:

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:7).​

The following passage tells us exactly what it takes to overcome:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).​

It is those who believe who are the overcomers. And this is made plain later when the Lord jesus says this about those who will inherit the kingdom:

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Mt.25:46).​

It is the believers who are given eternal life:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

 

[beloved57]

Let us look at the fate of those who will be saved:

"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt.25:33-34).​

The following verse tells us exactly who it is that will inherit the kingdom:

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:7).​

The following passage tells us exactly what it takes to overcome:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).​

It is those who believe who are the overcomers. And this is made plain later when the Lord jesus says this about those who will inherit the kingdom:

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Mt.25:46).​

It is the believers who are given eternal life:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

More Evasion and Rabbit trails !

 

[Shasta]

[Jerry Shugart;4951934]Let us look at the fate of those who will be saved:

"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt.25:33-34).​

In this passage, the sheep and the goats were identified by "how they treated the least of these my brothers" which is to say they had a relationship of love, faith and obedience to the Shepherd. The determinists in this forum have ignored the activity of faith and made it all about believing in a doctrinal systen - specifically the one formulated by that murderous theologian and religious dictator, John Calvin and his teacher, Augustine of Hippo.

The following verse tells us exactly who it is that will inherit the kingdom:

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:7).​

The following passage tells us exactly what it takes to overcome:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).​

It is those who believe who are the overcomers. And this is made plain later when the Lord jesus says this about those who will inherit the kingdom:

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Mt.25:46).​

What we believe about the Son is vitally important. If we believe He is someone other than who the Bible says he is then our faith has the wrong object. At the same time, just believing the right doctrines will not necessarily guarantee our entry into eternal life. The promises made to believers in Revelation demanded something. For instance, one statement was "if you are faithful unto death I will give you a crown of life." Believing was a risk for them and overcoming fear was a challenge. Now, so far, I have never faced death or torture because of my faith. All of us, though, are expected to continue to have faith (dependent trust) in Him for whatever we happen to face.

It is the believers who are given eternal life:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

The word "believe" in John 3:16 is a present tense verb which, in Greek, denotes ongoing continuous, durative or linear action, so that the kind of faith Jesus is describing is ongoing. Had this been a one-time placing of our faith in Him it would have been in the aorist tense. So much of what is taught actually is correct but it is conceptualized around the moment a person is first saved when that is only the first step in what is supposed to become a walk

6 Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness (Colossians 2:6-7 BSB)

 

[Shasta]

More Evasion and Rabbit trails !

Invalid comment

 

[Shasta]

Rabbit trail comments away from the points I made.

Here is the scripture you posted:

…17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.(John 3:17)

Here Jesus says that God had sent Him into the world, not to condemn them but to save them. God wants to save the world.

The next verse says the following:

18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son (John 3:18)

Regardless of what you have said this verse makes it clear that the world is under judgment because they do not believe in Him. This condemnation will be removed when they believe.

 

[beloved57]

Here is the scripture you posted:

…17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.(John 3:17)

The next verse says the following:

18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son (John 3:18)

Regardless of what you have said this verse makes it clear that the world is under judgment because they do not believe in Him. This condemnation will be removed when they believe.

Rabbit trail continues!

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[Shasta]

So your 'god' isn't so loving after all

I would say the deterministic god of Calvinism loves in a very limited tribal way. In this he bears much more resemblance to Allah than to the God of Jesus Christ. One thing that really convinced me of this is how they interpret Romans 9 to mean that God hated the individual named Esau even while he was still in his mother's womb for no other reason than God had "sovereignly" (i.e.,arbitrarily) chosen to make him into a "vessel of wrath." Since Esau supposedly a represents all those who have not been chosen it follows that God has hated the majority of all human beings that have ever existed.