Free will is simply....

[MennoSota]

You are missing my point; we still have to choose.....it wouldn't be an option if wholly and utterly predestined.

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You're missing my point, it's not free-will.
Free-will would mean that the person is free to do anything they willed with no authority that could stop them. It means that humans are more powerful and greater than God.
But, any person knows that is not true. In an instant God can end our existence. Puny human...
You are ignoring what the Bible says. We are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. Where is the free?
Do you imagine God is sleeping and does not take note of you? Is God's creation too big for Him to handle? Does the Bible lie when it tells us that Jesus controls all creation? (Read it in Hebrews)
Pops...it wouldn't be an option if God said "NO." You mistake God's ordained "yes" for you being free to do what you please. You are simply being foolish in your thinking pops.

 

[MennoSota]

2 Corinthians 8: 3. For I can testify that to the utmost of their power, and even beyond their power, they have of their own

free will

given help.

2 Corinthians 8: 17. for Titus welcomed our request, and, being thoroughly in earnest, comes to you of his own

free will.

Leviticus 22: 18. Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his

freewill

offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;

Leviticus 22: 21. And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a

freewill

offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.

Leviticus 22: 23. Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a

freewill

offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

Leviticus 23: 38. Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your

freewill

offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Numbers 15: 3. And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a

freewill offering

, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

Numbers 29: 39. These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your

freewill

offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.

Deuteronomy 12: 6. And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

(There are approximately 10 more verses referring to free will. I hope I have struck at your pride; it is the only way you will ever accept change.

By the way; I can show such truth in any of the sacred texts....name one.....

peace)

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LOL, in every verse you had to interject your own opinion. Not one verse said "free-will."
Face it, pops, you have nothing. You have conjured up a philosophy of men and you imagine that God's ordained will of "yes" somehow makes you free. Please stop being foolish.

 

[MennoSota]

I'm not boasting.

If you imagine that you conjured up faith by your own free-will, you are indeed boasting. You are attempting to tear down God from His throne and replace Him yourself. Does that sound like someone else who pridefully imagined he had "free-will?" Then God cast him down from the heavens...

 

[Idolater]

If you imagine that you conjured up faith by your own free-will, you are indeed boasting. You are attempting to tear down God from His throne and replace Him yourself. Does that sound like someone else who pridefully imagined he had "free-will?" Then God cast him down from the heavens...

I believe in Christ's Resurrection.

 

[MennoSota]

I believe in Christ's Resurrection.

So...

 

[Idolater]

So...

So anybody can believe in the Gospel, if they want to. If they don't want to, then they don't have to.

 

[MennoSota]

So...
Satan believes in the resurrection as well.
Just because there is a belief, it doesn't remove the nature of human rebellion that pushes humans to try usurp God's authority. Simply put, we want to be in control and we subtly or not so subtly fight God. God always wins, but that doesn't stop us from acting like little children demanding our independence.

 

[MennoSota]

So anybody can believe in the Gospel, if they want to. If they don't want to, then they don't have to.

Belief and faith are two different things. Satan believes as you do. Satan doesn't have faith.
Only a person whom God makes alive can have the gift of faith.
In other words...ya can't conjure it up. You can only try to fake it, and God may say "yes" go ahead and fake it.
I find it funny how hard you ate trying to argue against God directing your life. Why do you do this?

 

[Idolater]

Belief and faith are two different things. Satan believes as you do. Satan doesn't have faith.
Only a person whom God makes alive can have the gift of faith.
In other words...ya can't conjure it up. You can only try to fake it, and God may say "yes" go ahead and fake it.
I find it funny how hard you ate trying to argue against God directing your life. Why do you do this?

You either believe that Jesus Christ is risen from the dead, that it is a fact of history, nonfiction---or you don't. There's no other option. And if you believe the Gospel that He is risen, then you are a Christian, and if you don't believe in Christ's Resurrection, then you're not.

 

[MennoSota]

You either believe that Jesus Christ is risen from the dead, that it is a fact of history, nonfiction---or you don't. There's no other option. And if you believe the Gospel that He is risen, then you are a Christian, and if you don't believe in Christ's Resurrection, then you're not.

Satan believes that. Does that make him a Christian?
You mistake neurological acceptance as being faith. It's not.
Once again, Ephesians 2:1-10 proves you are wrong.

 

[Idolater]

Satan believes that. Does that make him a Christian?
You mistake neurological acceptance as being faith. It's not.
Once again, Ephesians 2:1-10 proves you are wrong.

Satan believes that because it's a fact. His trouble is the other spec in Romans 10:9 KJV. " . . . confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus . . . ."

How on earth, did the 'clavinist god' permit Catholicism to account for over 50 percent! of Christians the world wide? What is his plan, with the Catholic Church? He's got to have a plan for Holy Catholicism. It's just too big. The Roman Catholic Church---the Catholic Church---the---CHURCH is the Church! THE Church.

She says that 'those who believe in Christ' are all going to heaven. She says that even if you're not Catholic, if you believe in Christ's Resurrection, you're sorta Catholic, in that, you too believe in her Husband, Priest, and King, the Lord Jesus Christ.

You're just not 'in full communion' with her. This happens whenever a Catholic, even a pope, commits a grave sin, regardless of intent. They also, are not 'in full communion' with the Catholic Church, unless and until they do penance, the sacrament of reconciliation, also known as confession. Every Catholic who commits a grave sin is in a state of separation from her, requiring confession to return to full communion, required to receive Holy Communion licitly, or legally.

So the Catholic Church has specified what is a Christian, beyond her prior definition---a Catholic in full communion with the Church. Now, she says, that a Christian is one of those who believe in Christ, "regardless of whether or not they are Catholic." Quote mine.

 

[Idolater]

The implication here is that the Christian is the one for whom, once he or she KNOWS that they are criminals in the eyes of the Church, that they are remorseful of being a criminal, even if their current station unfairly prevents them from being 'in full communion' with the mother that he or she loves with all our heart. Everything we do is for her, even though we remain criminals. We know that she understands our plight, for she has clarified precisely whom she considers her kids. Those who believe in Christ.

Believing in Christ is defined by Sacred Scripture the Christian Bible as believing that Christ's Resurrection is nonfiction.

 

[MennoSota]

Satan believes that because it's a fact. His trouble is the other spec in Romans 10:9 KJV. " . . . confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus . . . ."

How on earth, did the 'clavinist god' permit Catholicism to account for over 50 percent! of Christians the world wide? What is his plan, with the Catholic Church? He's got to have a plan for Holy Catholicism. It's just too big. The Roman Catholic Church---the Catholic Church---the---CHURCH is the Church! THE Church.

She says that 'those who believe in Christ' are all going to heaven. She says that even if you're not Catholic, if you believe in Christ's Resurrection, you're sorta Catholic, in that, you too believe in her Husband, Priest, and King, the Lord Jesus Christ.

You're just not 'in full communion' with her. This happens whenever a Catholic, even a pope, commits a grave sin, regardless of intent. They also, are not 'in full communion' with the Catholic Church, unless and until they do penance, the sacrament of reconciliation, also known as confession. Every Catholic who commits a grave sin is in a state of separation from her, requiring confession to return to full communion, required to receive Holy Communion licitly, or legally.

So the Catholic Church has specified what is a Christian, beyond her prior definition---a Catholic in full communion with the Church. Now, she says, that a Christian is one of those who believe in Christ, "regardless of whether or not they are Catholic." Quote mine.

Who cares.
God is in absolute control. His perfect will is being accomplished through both good and evil.
It seems to me that you are struggling with your own desire to wrestle control from God. God may let you wrestle for a very long time...or he may flatten and end your rebellion in an instant. In any case, God rules with absolute authority. Be glad that He has all things in his complete control. It is the way of peace.

 

[Idolater]

Who cares.
God is in absolute control. His perfect will is being accomplished through both good and evil.
It seems to me that you are struggling with your own desire to wrestle control from God. God may let you wrestle for a very long time...or he may flatten and end your rebellion in an instant. In any case, God rules with absolute authority. Be glad that He has all things in his complete control. It is the way of peace.

For someone whose favorite verse is Psalm 46:10 KJV* ("Be still, and know that I am God"), you sure do put a lot of effort into getting people to BE STILL!

The way to be still, is to be Catholic. I'm telling you that from experience, namely, the experience of not being Catholic.



* You might have thought I meant Isaiah 46:10 KJV, but no; that's MY favorite verse, seeing as how much I believe in God's exhaustive, definite sovereignty.

 

[JudgeRightly]

What onmis aren't verified with scripture?

All of them. One can read them into scripture, interpret scripture so that it does confirm them. But it's a misapplication of the text.

Would you be willing to go over them in a peacable consice manner with me?

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Maybe some other time.

 

[JudgeRightly]

LOL, in every verse you had to interject your own opinion. Not one verse said "free-will."
Face it, pops, you have nothing. You have conjured up a philosophy of men and you imagine that God's ordained will of "yes" somehow makes you free. Please stop being foolish.

besides the Sabbaths of the Lord, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord . - Leviticus 23:38 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus23:38&version=NKJV

A freewill offering is one that is given voluntarily. It's not required by God, but he does require it to be done in a certain way.

 

[popsthebuilder]

LOL, in every verse you had to interject your own opinion. Not one verse said "free-will."
Face it, pops, you have nothing. You have conjured up a philosophy of men and you imagine that God's ordained will of "yes" somehow makes you free. Please stop being foolish.

Are you blind or trying to say I have added to scripture?

You seem more proud than I gave you credit for.

I'm sorry the verses I quoted didn't have the a dash mark in the word freewill...

So since everything is preordained and you are of the elect then why can't you even see the truth about the subject all through scripture? Perhaps you are predestined to be blind and proud the rest of your mortal life.....but that doesn't fit the description of a follower of GOD. If you follow the Word due to predestination then are you even following in actuality at all?

So have you determined what GOD destined you to be and do here in this life?

Let me ask you what made truster put me on ignore a couple years ago;

Do you believe it is outside the capacity of GOD to ordain our free will?

How do you know it isn't the sovergn will of GOD that HIS creation have the freedom of choice when all scripture tells us to choose?

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[MennoSota]

For someone whose favorite verse is Psalm 46:10 KJV* ("Be still, and know that I am God"), you sure do put a lot of effort into getting people to BE STILL!

The way to be still, is to be Catholic. I'm telling you that from experience, namely, the experience of not being Catholic.



* You might have thought I meant Isaiah 46:10 KJV, but no; that's MY favorite verse, seeing as how much I believe in God's exhaustive, definite sovereignty.

You seem confused. From the pen you say you believe in God's sovereignty, yet you are arguing that you were free to choose God, even though the Bible tells you that God has chosen.
I suggest you sit down, read the entire Bible again and then come back with your report.

 

[MennoSota]

besides the Sabbaths of the Lord, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord . - Leviticus 23:38 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus23:38&version=NKJV

A freewill offering is one that is given voluntarily. It's not required by God, but he does require it to be done in a certain way.

It is still something that God says yes or no to you doing. You seem to ignore my examples of Job and Balaam to point out that God's ordination over every action in our lives takes place all the time. We cannot have this dialogue except by the ordination of God. God's ordination is the umbrella over all your imagined "free-will." God is Sovereign...we are not.

 

[Idolater]

You seem confused.

Unsurprising.

From the pen you say you believe in God's sovereignty

Because I do, utterly.

, yet you are arguing that you were free to choose God

Yes.

, even though the Bible tells you that God has chosen.

Because there is no contradiction.

I suggest you sit down, read the entire Bible again and then come back with your report.

I've read the Bible through twice. Well, I've read the Protestant Bible through twice (only 66 books instead of the Christian Bible's 73 books).

My report is the one thing that separates most Protestants from ancient Christianity, and it is the typically Protestant habit of putting zero weighting on the office of 'Bishop.' It's not as if the word isn't in the Bible, it's just that Protestant theology typically doesn't interpret the office of Bishop in any way that correlates to what the first Church practiced and believed.

Pastors aren't those who get their MDiv. Pastors are ordained, through the imposition of hands, which is the sacrament of Holy Orders. The Bishops have two or three jobs, depending upon how you prefer to describe it. In the two-job model, Bishops are to teach, and to pray. This is Pope Francis's view. Another view is that Bishops are to teach, sanctify, and govern. iow, Pope Francis condensed the three-job model into 'teach and pray.'

And the Bishops teach how God's sovereignty and man's free will integrate together seamlessly, as one fabric, in the Church's authorized teaching on Divine Providence.

Text 307 from the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
"Though often unconscious collaborators* with God's will, [human beings] can also enter deliberately* into the divine plan by their actions, their prayers and their sufferings."

* 'unconscious collaborators' and entering 'deliberately into the divine plan' are the only two options. The Church teaches explicitly what the divine plan is for us Christians, and when we are not entering deliberately into His plan, we are still 'unconscious collaborators' in it. This covers all the bases, and shows precisely how our freedom interacts with God's exhaustive, definite power over all His creation, including the truly free will choices of man.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm#307