Free will is simply....

[MennoSota]

Your flaw in reasoning seems to be that you conflate GOD given freedom with GOD.

I've asked you how you conclude such more than once friend. How do you arrive at such? Please explain it.

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You just show that free-will doesn't exist. You admit that there must be a God-given "yes" to every action we take. That is not freedom. That is Sovereignty. You are not, will not and cannot ever be free.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I have provided a large list of verses and passages declaring God's choice, God's election and God's predestination. You ignore them all. Why?

As I told you and showed you; I ignore none of them. I believe it to be the will of GOD that HIS creation have freedom. Such is readily observable in both scripture and life. Do you go about your day as an utter automation? Like a computer, or even a plant or a rock?



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[popsthebuilder]

You just show that free-will doesn't exist. You admit that there must be a God-given "yes" to every action we take. That is not freedom. That is Sovereignty. You are not, will not and cannot ever be free.

Like I've said before; just because you can't grasp a thing, doesn't mean you should limit GOD to your cognitive capabilities.

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[MennoSota]

As I told you and showed you; I ignore none of them. I believe it to be the will of GOD that HIS creation have freedom. Such is readily observable in both scripture and life. Do you go about your day as an utter automation? Like a computer, or even a plant or a rock?



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You are trying to tiptoe around the tulips. Since you have no substantial scripture that argues your position and you rely upon what you imagine you observe, you therefore erroneously claim free-will.
I have made my point with overwhelming scripture. Go along your delusional way. God has so ordained it.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You are trying to tiptoe around the tulips. Since you have no substantial scripture that argues your position and you rely upon what you imagine you observe, you therefore erroneously claim free-will.
I have made my point with overwhelming scripture. Go along your delusional way. God has so ordained it.

No scripture!

How blind can you really be.

There are easily over 20 separate verses that say the words "free will" out right. And hundreds, if not thousands that imply it. Get over yourself.

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[Idolater]

I'll show you. Just recently the pope told a little boy that his atheist dad is in heaven because the dad let his kids be baptized into the Roman church.

Why would a man permit his kids to be baptized into the Trinity, unless he believed in Christ?

That statement is a heresy of the first degree. Your leader is a charlatan who is pointing the entire church at Rome toward hell. Of course, he's just following a millenium of false teaching from Mary worship to indulgences.
The traditions of Rome have been guided by hell for years. I suggest you flee quickly from Jezebel.

Who's Jezebel?
And I'm not Catholic.

People go to Rome out of fear that has been ingrained from youth. Rome and Islam both teach works as the means of receiving God's mercy.

The Catholic Church teaches faith alone.

Neither understands God's gracious choice of adoption by God's will alone. Rome, for a millenium refused to allow mass to be performed in anything but Latin. Muslims refuse to memorize the Quran in anything but Arabic. Both keep their followers by playing on fear. Both have leadership lead by hell.

Your theology is wrong.

 

[MennoSota]

Why would a man permit his kids to be baptized into the Trinity, unless he believed in Christ?

LOL, you must not be married.

Who's Jezebel?

Read your Bible.

And I'm not Catholic.

Should I care?

The Catholic Church teaches faith alone.

No it doesn't. Read up on indulgences. Read up on merited grace. The RC is works based.

Your theology is wrong.

Present your case from scripture. Prove my faith wrong via God's word, otherwise you are merely stating your ignorant opinion.

 

[Idolater]

LOL, you must not be married.

So you are free to judge other peoples' soul? Wow. Interesting. lain: And you're the one who's preaching there's no free will. Yet here, you exercise free will.

Read your Bible.

Read all the places where overseer/elder/bishop is written. Now where are your overseers/elders/bishops? Don't you have any? Who's Jezebel again? Is it someone who disbelieves or disobeys what Scripture teaches?

Should I care?

No it doesn't. Read up on indulgences. Read up on merited grace. The RC is works based.

Here's the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
What you say, isn't in there. So that makes you wrong. If you can find it in there, go ahead, so you can support what you're saying here, which is just bald assertion.

Present your case from scripture.

My case is from Scripture. Bishops/elders/overseers are right in there.

Prove my faith wrong via God's word, otherwise you are merely stating your ignorant opinion.

Present your case from Scripture---that your case from Scripture, could possibly be true, if it contravenes what the bishops/overseers/elders teach. Go ahead, and prove that via God's word; you show us; that you're not just stating your ignorant opinion. Why should your view, which contravenes the bishops, possibly be correct?

 

[MennoSota]

So you are free to judge other peoples' soul? Wow. Interesting. lain: And you're the one who's preaching there's no free will. Yet here, you exercise free will.

I have provided you with enough scripture and shown what free-will is in comparison with simple actions. Your ability to sin, doesn't make you free.

Read all the places where overseer/elder/bishop is written. Now where are your overseers/elders/bishops?

Read the book of Acts, 1st and 2nd Timothy as well as Titus. God tells us this information. All churches that follow biblical teaching has elders and deacons.

Don't you have any? Who's Jezebel again? Is it someone who disbelieves or disobeys what Scripture teaches?
Here's the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

You haven't read the catechism. Second, talk to 10 priests in the Roman church and you'll get 10 different answers about the meaning in the catechism. It is purposefully obscure so no one actually knows what the pointy hats are saying.

What you say, isn't in there. So that makes you wrong. If you can find it in there, go ahead, so you can support what you're saying here, which is just bald assertion.

You can't find it in the catechism. It's a mess of double speak.

My case is from Scripture.

Great. Prove free-will from scripture. I dare you. I triple dog dare you.

Bishops/elders/overseers are right in there.

Of course they are. No one disputes this. That's why churches have elders and deacons.

Present your case from Scripture---that your case from Scripture, could possibly be true, if it contravenes what the bishops/overseers/elders teach.

Where do the elders and deacons in scripture teach free-will? This ought to be good.

Go ahead, and prove that via God's word; you show us; that you're not just stating your ignorant opinion. Why should your view, which contravenes the bishops, possibly be correct?

I have already done so. You have shown no scripture that teaches free-will.

 

[Idolater]

I have provided you with enough scripture and shown what free-will is in comparison with simple actions. Your ability to sin, doesn't make you free.

You're right, but it does require a very nuanced definition of what we mean by 'free will,' and by 'sovereignty.' Sovereignty is exhaustive definite power over the whole creation, including all free choices of men; and only God is sovereign.

Read the book of Acts, 1st and 2nd Timothy as well as Titus. God tells us this information. All churches that follow biblical teaching has elders and deacons.

How are bishops made?

You haven't read the catechism.

Yes and I still do read it. I love the Catechism. It's today what Christ Jesus wants us to know about faith and morals.

Second, talk to 10 priests in the Roman church and you'll get 10 different answers about the meaning in the catechism. It is purposefully obscure so no one actually knows what the pointy hats are saying.

Protestants are known for being experts at biblical study and interpretation, like yourself, you act like an expert on scriptural interpretation. We know how to interpret. We know how to deal with ambiguity, if we are learned, disciplined Scripture scholars. The Scripture was not written as an instruction manual. The Catechism was written as an instruction manual. So automatically, there's far less ambiguity. And, of the ambiguity that does remain, those credentialed in biblical interpretation can snuff out that ambiguity, easier than they can wrt scriptural interpretation. The only disagreement in interpretation of the Catechism would be due to unintentionally wearing blinders by one side.

You can't find it in the catechism.

Of course not. And that, if you know any better, means that the Catholic Church doesn't teach, what you accuse her of teaching, which makes you a false accuser. If you do know better, then you're a deliberate false accuser.

It's a mess of double speak.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
People are free to click on this link, and scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, where the alphabetical index runs across the bottom.

Great. Prove free-will from scripture. I dare you. I triple dog dare you.

If free will is fictional, then the Bible becomes silly in superfluity. And that's SUPER-fluity.

Of course they are. No one disputes this. That's why churches have elders and deacons.

How are elders made?

Where do the elders and deacons in scripture teach free-will? This ought to be good.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Before that, of course, in the Roman Catechism.

I have already done so. You have shown no scripture that teaches free-will.

Also, no scripture teaches that people have to use the facilities regularly, that nature calls, so :idunno:.

 

[MennoSota]

You're right, but it does require a very nuanced definition of what we mean by 'free will,' and by 'sovereignty.' Sovereignty is exhaustive definite power over the whole creation, including all free choices of men; and only God is sovereign.
How are bishops made?
Yes and I still do read it. I love the Catechism. It's today what Christ Jesus wants us to know about faith and morals.
Protestants are known for being experts at biblical study and interpretation, like yourself, you act like an expert on scriptural interpretation. We know how to interpret. We know how to deal with ambiguity, if we are learned, disciplined Scripture scholars. The Scripture was not written as an instruction manual. The Catechism was written as an instruction manual. So automatically, there's far less ambiguity. And, of the ambiguity that does remain, those credentialed in biblical interpretation can snuff out that ambiguity, easier than they can wrt scriptural interpretation. The only disagreement in interpretation of the Catechism would be due to unintentionally wearing blinders by one side.
Of course not. And that, if you know any better, means that the Catholic Church doesn't teach, what you accuse her of teaching, which makes you a false accuser. If you do know better, then you're a deliberate false accuser.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
People are free to click on this link, and scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, where the alphabetical index runs across the bottom.
If free will is fictional, then the Bible becomes silly in superfluity. And that's SUPER-fluity.
How are elders made?
In the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Before that, of course, in the Roman Catechism.
Also, no scripture teaches that people have to use the facilities regularly, that nature calls, so :idunno:.

Much of what you wrote is a deflection in an attempt to hold a superfluous position.
The Bible tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. Being able to think for yourself does not make you free and it does not mean you can will yourself to do as you please. You are confined by your slavery and by your master.
Ultimately the crux of your struggle is found in this statement of yours:
" If free will is fictional, then the Bible becomes silly in superfluity. And that's SUPER-fluity."
There is your philosophy speaking. No biblical support, just your outright philosophy for why you cannot accept that God is in control.
Perhaps God will change your mind. Perhaps he will let you continue to live with your philosophy. He is not obligated to be gracious.

 

[Idolater]

Much of what you wrote is a deflection in an attempt to hold a superfluous position.
The Bible tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. Being able to think for yourself does not make you free and it does not mean you can will yourself to do as you please. You are confined by your slavery and by your master.

Being able to think for yourself means that you can choose to believe in the Gospel.

Ultimately the crux of your struggle is found in this statement of yours:
" If free will is fictional, then the Bible becomes silly in superfluity. And that's SUPER-fluity."
There is your philosophy speaking. No biblical support, just your outright philosophy for why you cannot accept that God is in control.
Perhaps God will change your mind. Perhaps he will let you continue to live with your philosophy. He is not obligated to be gracious.

 

[MennoSota]

Being able to think for yourself means that you can choose to believe in the Gospel.

I do believe the Gospel as God shares it in the Bible. I believe because God has chosen for me to believe.

 

[MennoSota]

Being able to think for yourself means that you can choose to believe in the Gospel.

No, you can't.
In Romans 3 we read that "No one seeks after God, not even one."
The Bible tells us that the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing. They are incapable of believing.
Read Romans 9.

 

[JudgeRightly]

https://youtu.be/a9n1ASwC7s0

 

[preacherman57]

God never commanded his people to address Him as "the Eternal Almighty".

Here is the name He said to be used:

Exodus 3:15 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.​

The LORD h3068 יְהֹוָה Yĕhovah - "the existing One"
God h430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym - God

If you break down Jehovah, it makes the following, He who was, He who is, He who will be, meaning no beginning or end,

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[preacherman57]

Not at all.
I do think that you have chosen of your own free will to use "the Eternal Almighty" as the most pretentious titles and names for God that you could imagine.
It is your pretentiousness that I am calling you out on.



If you don't like German words, stop using English, since English is a Germanic language.

Actually, English is a mixture of German, Latin, French, Russian, Greek and Spanish. Many English words are simply foreign words adopted into the English language.

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