For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained

Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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Jerry Shugart said:
The words you quoted of Paul were spoken in defense of the charges against him that he was a mover of sedition among the Jews (Acts 24:5). Paul said that what he was teaching to the Jews came straight from the OT and therefore he did nothing wrong.

The gospel Paul preached to the Jews was based on what the prophets foretold (Ro.1:1-2) while the gospel which he preached to the Gentiles was bases on truths that had not been revealed and had been kept secret:

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Cor.2:7-8).​
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The Gospel that Paul preached was given to Him by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Paul Defends His Ministry
11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

And this is the gospel he preached.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Fact of Christ’s Resurrection
15 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast [a]the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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Jerry Shugart said:
Are you speaking about the gospel he preached that was promised by the OT prophets (Ro.1:1-2) or the gospel which was kept secret since the world began (Ro.16:25)?
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I didn't realize that there were two Gospel preached by the apostle Paul.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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Bright Raven said:
I didn't realize that there were two Gospel preached by the apostle Paul.
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I can only understand that the gospel of which Paul writes about at Romans 1:1-2 is not the same one of which he speaks at Romans 16:25 since the first was promised by the OT prophets and the second was kept secret since the world began.
 
heir

heir

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Bright Raven said:
I didn't realize that there were two Gospel preached by the apostle Paul.
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Hi BR,

Actually, Paul preached three gospels, but let's just look at the two in the book of Romans since that is where we can see two of them. Romans 1:1-4 KJV is the gospel of God, the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead. This was what the Romans "faith" was in (Romans 1:8 KJV), but not the WHY of the cross/Paul's gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began, but then at that time/"but now is made manifest,..." (Romans 16:25-26 KJV) that they needed to stablish them into the Body of Christ (the gospel of Christ being the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek at that time). It's the purpose of Paul's letter unto them.

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Paul's gospel is WHY Christ died. It's declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV; how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. It's summarized in Romans 4:25 KJV.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
heir said:
Actually, Paul preached three gospels, but let's just look at the two in the book of Romans since that is where we can see two of them. Romans 1:1-4 KJV is the gospel of God, the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead.
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The gospel which speaks of the WHO of Jesus Christ is the gospel which Paul preached at Acts 9.

Agree?
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Jerry Shugart said:
The gospel which speaks of the WHO of Jesus Christ is the gospel which Paul preached at Acts 9.

Agree?
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Paul's first order of business in the synagogues was to preach the gospel of God, yes.

Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

The first time we see Paul preaching the gospel of Christ recorded in the scripture is Acts 13:38-39 KJV.

That is the foundation Paul laid = Christ and Him crucified.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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heir said:
Hi BR,

Actually, Paul preached three gospels, but let's just look at the two in the book of Romans since that is where we can see two of them. Romans 1:1-4 KJV is the gospel of God, the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead. This was what the Romans "faith" was in (Romans 1:8 KJV), but not the WHY of the cross/Paul's gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began, but then at that time/"but now is made manifest,..." (Romans 16:25-26 KJV) that they needed to stablish them into the Body of Christ (the gospel of Christ being the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek at that time). It's the purpose of Paul's letter unto them.

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Paul's gospel is WHY Christ died. It's declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV; how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. It's summarized in Romans 4:25 KJV.
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Isn't the Gospel of Paul the one that appears in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? And isn't this the same gospel that he speaks of in Galatians 1:12 I do not see how He could have preached more than one gospel when even he says,If anyoneone preached a gospel other than that which he preached, let them be accursed.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Bright Raven said:
Isn't the Gospel of Paul the one that appears in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?
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Yes :)
And isn't this the same gospel that he speaks of in Galatians 1:12
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The gospel that he preached "unto" the Galatians as the power of God was the gospel of Christ, yes. Paul's gospel (Galatians 1:3-5 KJV).
I do not see how He could have preached more than one gospel when even he says,If anyoneone preached a gospel other than that which he preached, let them be accursed.
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If anyone including Paul would have preached any other gospel than that which he preached "unto" the Galatians (as the power of God), let them be accursed. And that is just what was happening. The Galatians were being constrained to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:5 KJV, Galatians 5:1-3 KJV) which once Paul preached "unto" the Galatians the gospel of Christ which they received the Spirit by the hearing of faith Galatians 3:2 KJV), was a perversion of the gospel of Christ (Galatians 1:7 KJV). None of that negates the fact that Paul preached the gospel of God/the WHO of Jesus Christ before he got to his saving gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV-the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek Romans 1:16-17 KJV). After all, he was at that time separated unto the gospel of God (Romans 1:1 KJV).

And please forgive my interruption into your conversation. I have to admit, I don't know what you and Jerry are talking about. I'm not much into reading Jerry as he wrongly divides. I was only responding directly to your statement to address that Paul indeed preached more than one gospel: the gospel of God, the gospel of Christ, the gospel of the grace of God. It can be of help to recognize differences in what Paul preached and to whom and also how it differed from the 12 to Israel. I know that it has been of great help to me as I try to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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heir said:
Yes :) The gospel that he preached "unto" the Galatians as the power of God was the gospel of Christ, yes. Paul's gospel (Galatians 1:3-5 KJV). If anyone including Paul would have preached any other gospel than that which he preached "unto" the Galatians (as the power of God), let them be accursed. And that is just what was happening. The Galatians were being constrained to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:5 KJV, Galatians 5:1-3 KJV) which once Paul preached "unto" the Galatians the gospel of Christ which they received the Spirit by the hearing of faith Galatians 3:2 KJV), was a perversion of the gospel of Christ (Galatians 1:7 KJV). None of that negates the fact that Paul preached the gospel of God/the WHO of Jesus Christ before he got to his saving gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV-the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek Romans 1:16-17 KJV). After all, he was at that time separated unto the gospel of God (Romans 1:1 KJV).

And please forgive my interruption into your conversation. I have to admit, I don't know what you and Jerry are talking about. I'm not much into reading Jerry as he wrongly divides. I was only responding directly to your statement to address that Paul indeed preached more than one gospel: the gospel of God, the gospel of Christ, the gospel of the grace of God. It can be of help to recognize differences in what Paul preached and to whom and also how it differed from the 12 to Israel. I know that it has been of great help to me as I try to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
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I now understand what you are talking about.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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heir said:
None of that negates the fact that Paul preached the gospel of God/the WHO of Jesus Christ before he got to his saving gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV-the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek Romans 1:16-17 KJV). After all, he was at that time separated unto the gospel of God (Romans 1:1 KJV).
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So no one was saved by believing the Who of Jesus Christ despite what we read at 1 John 5:1-5 and John 20:30-31?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
Jerry, We are saved by believing in the Gospel as given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. You do believe this don't you?
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Yes, I believe that. But were not the Jews who lived under the law saved when they were born again by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (1 Jn.5:1-5)?
 
lifeisgood

lifeisgood

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Sometimes I do not understand why we say 'Paul's gospel'. Was Peter, etc. saved under Paul's Gospel? or do we consider that Peter. etc. was not saved BEFORE Paul came into the scene? There is no such thing as Paul's Gospel. It is the same problem I have when people tell me that it is the Revelation of John. There is no such thing as the revelation of John in the book of Revelation.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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Bright Raven said:
If they believed in Paul's gospel.
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Where do you get your strange ideas, Bright Raven? Do you not even understand that the Jews who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" when theybelieved that truth (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31)?

Are you willing to argue that even though they were born of God that they weren't saved?
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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Jerry Shugart said:
Where do you get your strange ideas, Bright Raven? Do you not even understand that the Jews who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" when theybelieved that truth (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31)?

Are you willing to argue that even though they were born of God that they weren't saved?
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I get my ideas from Romans through Philemon. Where do you get yours? Yes, I know that Jews who believe in Jesus are saved
 
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