Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
The above is an abbreviation of the Aramaic expression "Ba siata desmaya", and that means: "With the help of Heaven".
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Bs"d
The above is an abbreviation of the Aramaic expression "Ba siata desmaya", and that means: "With the help of Heaven".
Who are you to judge me as living in disobedience?
Your judgment only shows that you do not know truth.
"Lo' yihyeh- lka 'lohiym 'cheriym `al- panaya."
"You shall have no other elohim against/beside My face."
Strong's Ref. #5921
Romanized `al
Pronounced al
properly, the same as HSN5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural often with prefix, or as conjunction with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications (as follow):
KJV--above, according to(-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-)on, over, than, through(-out), to, touching, X with.
So the question is: why are you here trying to teach believers of the Scripture not to believe the Scripture and rather become like yourself? See? You have put your own interpretations BEFORE the Word of YHWH, O little "e" elohim! :crackup:
Is this law to you or not?
Psalm 82:6-7
6. I have said, You are elohim, and all of you are sons of the Most High:
7. But you shall die as adam, and fall as one of the sariym-princes!
:sheep:
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
God saying " I’m through with them! Finis. Over. Kaput.” I don't see anywhere in the text. Can you tell me where I can find that?
Not correct:
The Hebrew text says: "from the outgoing of the word restore and to built Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks shall the street be built again and the wall, even in troubled times." The 7 weeks and the 62 weeks are not connected in the text. It makes no sense to connect them, because when the Bible wants to give a time period of 69 weeks, why should it write then 7 weeks and 62 weeks, instead of 69 weeks? Therefore the Revised Standard Version says: "from the going forth of the word to restore and built Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again, with squares and moat, …." The RSV has it right. Just like the RSV is correct in Isaiah 7:14; 'young woman' instead of 'virgin'.
The King James in itself gives an reasonable literal translation of these verses as far as the time frames are concerned, except for the colon, the two dots on top of each other, right after the words 'three score and two weeks:' This colon is not to be found in the original text of Daniel. Read now the KJV text without this colon: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to built Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublous times." Here you see that without that colon inserted by the translators the KJV says basically the same as the RSV. Now you might understand why there is a big "King James only" movement. When you read the Bible in an accurate translation, Christianity already starts to fall apart.
And also "The Message" translates this correct: "Here is what you must understand: From the time the word goes out to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Anointed Leader, there will be seven sevens. The rebuilding will take sixty-two sevens, including building streets and digging a moat. Those will be rough times."
And also the English Standard Version translates this correct: "Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time."
About these seven weeks, there is something fishy going on in the King James. The 1611 KJV gives that verse in the correct form: "Know therefore and vnderstand, that from the going foorth of the commandement to restore and to build Ierusalem, vnto the Messiah the Prince, shall be seuen weekes; and threescore and two weekes, the street shall be built againe, and the wall, euen in troublous times."
See here: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Daniel-Chapter-9/
We see there in the original 1611 KJV, that the colon is in the right place, right after the seven weeks.
This is changed around 1800. The accompanying explanation was that they wanted it to be more in line with the christological exegesis.
So they admitted that that translation was corrupted in order to squeeze their messiah into it.
So if anybody doubted the fact that the Christian Bible translations are corrupted in order to prove Christianity with it, here is the proof.
You see Keypurr? After seven weeks a messiah already had to come, and not only after 69 weeks.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
I'm afraid it is not so simple. Because it doesn't say: "from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem", it also doesn't say: "when a decree is made to rebuild Jerusalem.”
What is says is: ""from the going forth of the WORD to restore and build Jerusalem"
You can check that out here: Hebrew interlinear
Except, we are not talking about a decree, but about a "word".
Why do you leave out now the; "and sixty two weeks"?
No Keypurr, it doesn't say that. What is says is: "A messiah will be cut of, and he will have nothing."
This is correctly translated by the ASV: "And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing:"
The AMP comes close: "And after the sixty-two weeks [of years] shall the Anointed One be cut off or killed and shall have nothing [and no one] belonging to [and defending] Him."
The CJB has is correct: "Then, after the sixty-two weeks, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing."
CEV: "At the end of the sixty-two weeks, the Chosen Leader will be killed and left with nothing."
Darby translation: "And after the sixty-two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, and shall have nothing;"
ESV: "And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing."
EXB: " After the ·four hundred thirty-four years [L sixty-two sevens/weeks] the ·appointed leader [L anointed one] will be ·killed [L cut off]; he will have nothing."
It is getting a bit cumbersome to copy all those correct translations here, but you can check out for yourself that many more translate it the right way, see here: http://legacy.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Daniel 9:26
You can check it out in the original Hebrew here, Hebrew interlinear just look in the English underneath the Hebrew.
Don't read the English on the right side, that's just the corrupted KJV.
However, the sacrifices just went on after his death.
Wrong. Every Day of Atonement the curtain was opened, and the people could look in.
Well, the year 70 is not "very shortly" after 34.
The prophecy says: "And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
So in the last week, in which a messiah is to be cut off, in that same week (= 7 years) the city and the Temple must be destroyed.
And that didn't happen. Not until 35 years later.
Meaning, there is something terribly wrong with your interpretation of this prophecy.
For the correct explanation of this prophecy, look here: Daniel 9
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
That date fits beautiful with your theory, but secular scholars disagree:
http://www.britannica.com/event/Babylonian-Exile
"Babylonian Exile, also called Babylonian Captivity, the forced detention of Jews in Babylonia following the latter’s conquest of the kingdom of Judah in 598/7 and 587/6 bc. The exile formally ended in 538 bc, when the Persian conqueror of Babylonia, Cyrus the Great, gave the Jews permission to return to Palestine."
The Encyclopedia Britannica is more than 80 years off your date.
Wikipedia says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
"Archaeological finds from Jerusalem testify that virtually the whole city within the walls was burnt to rubble in 587 BCE and utterly destroyed."
And then, with a 70 year exile, you don't even get to 500 before.
So there is no exact date for the exile or the decree of Cyrus, and therefore your date of 457 before is arbitrary. Undoubtedly picked because it fits you theory.
In 31 CE the first day of Passover was on a Tuesday, which is not the middle of the week.
Elia
Well-known member
There are three sets of seven: the middle of the seven day week, the middle of the seven year prophecy, the middle of the seven millenniums.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You'd have to prove that 'midst' is that precise. It simply means that half way through that 'week' is the death, and the other things Messiah was launching start there. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
The plot to kill Jesus started some time before the actual moment of death, so don't be more exacting than that.
The plot to kill Jesus started some time before the actual moment of death, so don't be more exacting than that.
Can "half way through that 'week'" be described as the midst (middle) of the week?
keypurr
Well-known member
It's not talking about passover. It's talking about the middle of the 70th week.
It's a triple prophecy, three sets of seven.
keypurr
Well-known member
Enlighten me, I only see it as a 490 year span of events.
When was Jesus cut off? Was it within the context of three sets of seven?
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keypurr
Well-known member
Jesus was cut off in the middle of the 69th week.
Steven was stoned then Paul was sent to the Gentiles.
Mark 9:12-13 ASV
12. And he said unto them, Elijah indeed cometh first, and restoreth all things: and how is it written of the Son of man, that he should suffer many things and be set at nought?
13. But I say unto you, that Elijah is come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they would, even as it is written of him.
How is it written of the Son of man? that he should suffer many things and be karath-cut-off-beheaded and 'eyn low? Contrariwise I say unto you that Eliyahu is come, and they have done unto him as they pleased, as it is written of him. Where is it written of Eliyahu that they would do with him as they pleased and karath-cut-off-behead him?
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70th week.
keypurr
Well-known member
I stand corrected friend, my head was some where else when I posted that.
Elia
Well-known member
Keypurr said:
Bs"d
God is not through with the Jews! Finish. Over. Kaput.
God clearly says He will NEVER break His covenant with the Jews:
The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."
"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that Y-H-W-H hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith Y-H-W-H: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26
If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d.
"And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."
Leviticus 26:44-45
Gods covenant with the Jews will NEVER be broken!
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
According to you the middle of the 70th week was somewhere around the year 30.
Can you understand that then the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which happened in the year 3831 after creation, for you the year 70 of your lord, comes way too late?
And the sacrifices stopt in the year 3827, for you 66, when the Romans laid a siege around Jerusalem, and no more sheep and bulls could be brought into the city. Exactly in the middle of the last week the sacrifices were stopped.
Around the time of the death of your messiah, the animal sacrifices continued unabated.
On top of that, your messiah was not a messiah, not an anointed king, not a ruler.
So wouldn't you agree that the Jewish interpretation of Daniel 9 makes much more sense?
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5