ECT Follow Paul!

[Interplanner]

As with the kingdom of God being within a Christian, likewise it is to be understood that his cross is within him as well. It can be defined as "old man" or "self" as in anything of the soul that stands against the ruling government of the Kingdom of God supposedly now indwelling him [if he is a Christian]. The argument between the two "entities" [one that should already be dead by baptism, if he is a Christian] and the new birth from above, for the overcoming of the newly bought soul of the individual chosen of God, is where the battle takes place. Here:


From Peter:

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently" 1 Peter 1:22 (KJV)

And again from Paul:

"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil" Ephesians 6:11,13 (KJV)

But more to the point would be Gal 2:20. Because there you have a person who was raised in Judaism referring to that previous life as being crucified (and again in 6:14).

It is customary for evangelicals to pick these verses as being about a person's pre Christian secular life, but that is not what they mean at first.

So for Paul, the 'cross' was the slander and insult of former colleagues in Judaism; the rejection.

 

[Cross Reference]

But more to the point would be Gal 2:20. Because there you have a person who was raised in Judaism referring to that previous life as being crucified (and again in 6:14).

Lets discuss;

I don't see that in Gal 2:20 [read in the KJV or interlinear] because he takes it further than needful, not for his own understanding but the understanding he wishes to convey to his Charges, i.e., the actual depth of his life now being as the life of Jesus.

"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world IS crucified unto me, and I unto the world." Galatians 6:14 (KJV)

In this "to glory in His Cross", is that he knows to now view everyone as being perfect in Christ because of redemption (John 3:16). He has no choice but to do this because of the love of God expended towards them; to now see everything and everyone in Christ [present tense]. Then Paul speaks of his own successful crucifixion experience arrived at by practicing the presence of God in his daily life. OMT: Paul implied he was successful in placing upon the cross all the allurements of the world.

I hope I have explained it well enough that you can see it for the sake of others in their 'untoward' Christian camps. I am open for correction.

 

[musterion]

What insanity...Why do you guys imply that only Paul got revelation? You really discount the Apostles learning at Christ's side as NOT revelation?


Or that Paul wrote letters before Peter, therefore he was preaching something different before Peter?

Do you have any idea how silly and ignorant that sounds?

Your false Jesus can't even fully pay for your sins in this life. Your opinion counts for nothing on this.

 

[tetelestai]

Gal 1:23
The one persecuting us before,
is now preaching the Faith
which once he was destroying

These are Paul's words...

WHICH Faith is Paul preaching?
The SAME Faith which once he was attacking...

It is hard to kick against the pricks...

Slapping and spitting won't help either...

Arsenios

Correct.

Moreover, Jesus said the following to Paul:

(Acts 9:4) ..."Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

MADists claim the people Saul persecuted were NOT members of the Body of Christ.

Yet, Jesus referred to those people as "me".

MAD is a mess.

 

[patrick jane]

What insanity...Why do you guys imply that only Paul got revelation? You really discount the Apostles learning at Christ's side as NOT revelation?


Or that Paul wrote letters before Peter, therefore he was preaching something different before Peter?

Do you have any idea how silly and ignorant that sounds?

The truth sounds silly and ignorant sometimes. Does it hurt ?

 

[tetelestai]

Another verse MADists hate:

(Rom 16:7) Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.


In the above verse, MADists actually make the claim that the people "in Christ" before Paul, were NOT members of the Body of Christ.

MAD is a mess.

 

[tetelestai]

The truth sounds silly and ignorant sometimes. Does it hurt ?

Your Hyper-Dispensationalism (MAD) isn't "truth".

It's a false teaching that comes from John Nelson Darby and E.W. Bullinger.

It didn't exist before the mid 1800's

 

[patrick jane]

Your Hyper-Dispensationalism (MAD) isn't "truth".

It's a false teaching that comes from John Nelson Darby and E.W. Bullinger.

It didn't exist before the mid 1800's

It existed as soon as Christ came to Paul and was written between 49 and 65 AD, that's nearly 2000 years, since the inception of the NT. Darby made some great observations that were already written.

 

[tetelestai]

It existed as soon as Christ came to Paul and was written between 49 and 65 AD,

Nope.

Paul NEVER taught that there were two groups of people with two different gospels.

Paul said the following:

(Gal 1:23) ...“The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.”

It doesn't say the man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching a different gospel.

MAD is a mess.

 

[Interplanner]

It existed as soon as Christ came to Paul and was written between 49 and 65 AD, that's nearly 2000 years, since the inception of the NT. Darby made some great observations that were already written.

Dispensationalism doesn't sound like the NT; it sounds like the Judaism that the NT left and countered.

There is nothing in the ordinary passages of the NT about the second coming about a future for Israel. Rom 11 is very present tense and future only in a rhetoric sense (the elect will get saved by believing the historic truth). Rom 8, 3, I Cor 15, 2 Pet 3, 2 Tim 2, Heb 9, etc. Nothing about specific things happening in Israel.

The Rev was written about the trauma of 1st century Judea. The seven churches were 'refugee' Jewish Christians relocating in Little Asia out of the disaster of 1st century Judea. It is pastoral. They are now part of the bride of Christ, not the harlot Israel who was stoned, and they are now enjoying the wedding feast with people from every tongue and nation.

 

[tetelestai]

Darby made some great observations that were already written.

Dispensationalism didn't exist before Darby.

Before Darby there was no such thing as a rapture being taught. Darby had to invent the rapture to make his false teachings work.

You are living in denial if you think any of this rubbish was taught before Darby.

 

[tetelestai]

Dispensationalism doesn't sound like the NT; it sounds like the Judaism that the NT left and countered.

You're correct.

Paul's teachings are about how the mystery of the two (Jew & Gentile) are one new man in Christ.

Dispensationalism is all about breaking the twain up, and making it all about Israel and church being separate from each other, with God having two different plans for each.

 

[patrick jane]

You're correct.

Paul's teachings are about how the mystery of the two (Jew & Gentile) are one new man in Christ.

Dispensationalism is all about breaking the twain up, and making it all about Israel and church being separate from each other, with God having two different plans for each.

Galatians 2:1 KJV - Galatians 2:2 KJV - Galatians 2:7-8 KJV -

Galatians 2:11 KJV

 

[Cross Reference]

Again: Dispensation, as Paul explained, was but a "TIME FRAME" allotted him, by God, to preach the gospel. PERIOD

"For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me."
1 Corinthians 9:17 (KJV)

The Italics were added to the KJV.

"For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship". [of giving out the gospel in the time frame allotted me].
1 Corinthians 9:17 (ESV)

 

[lifeisgood]

1 Cor. 3:4 --- For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (KJV)

for when one may say, 'I, indeed, am of Paul;' and another, 'I -- of Apollos;' are ye not fleshly? (YLT)

For when some one says, "I belong to Paul," and another says, "I belong to Apollos," is not this the way men of the world speak? (WNT)

 

[patrick jane]

Again: Dispensation, as Paul explained, was but a "TIME FRAME" allotted him, by God, to preach the gospel. PERIOD

"For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me."
1 Corinthians 9:17 (KJV)

The Italics were added to the KJV.

"For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship". [of giving out the gospel in the time frame allotted me].
1 Corinthians 9:17 (ESV)

What is your hang up on time frames ? From the moment Christ met Paul on the road, Paul spent every breath preaching Christ crucified until the day he died.

 

[Cross Reference]

1 Cor. 3:4 --- For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (KJV)

for when one may say, 'I, indeed, am of Paul;' and another, 'I -- of Apollos;' are ye not fleshly? (YLT)

For when some one says, "I belong to Paul," and another says, "I belong to Apollos," is not this the way men of the world speak? (WNT)

Sortta sez it all doesn't it, Sis? Perhaps we need a new forum?

 

[patrick jane]

Sortta sez it all doesn't it, Sis? Perhaps we need a new forum?

Yes, it says Christ alone, that's Paul speaking. Nobody belongs to Paul or Peter, we all belong to God. MAD folks don't put Paul on a pedestal, nor do we worship him. Paul simply has exclusive revelation from God.

 

[patrick jane]

I submit that if the roles were reversed and Peter had received the revelations from Christ, I would be a Peter follower. It's the information and not the person. If God had chosen a man named BillyBob we would follow BillyBob's gospel because it came from Jesus Christ.

 

[Cross Reference]

I submit that if the roles were reversed and Peter had received the revelations from Christ, I would be a Peter follower. It's the information and not the person. If God had chosen a man named BillyBob we would follow BillyBob's gospel because it came from Jesus Christ.

Peter received his revelations from God and it was progressive. You got something against that arrangement?