ECT Faith + Obedience = Salvation?

J

jsanford108

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Then Paul was wrong:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​
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My friend,

I am not saying Paul was wrong. I am saying that the notion of faith alone is wrong. The doctrine of faith alone did not come from Paul, Peter, James, or even Christ.

Taking the words of Paul and twisting them to derive a faith alone doctrine is where the issue comes in. Paul's words agree with those of James. James agrees with Peter. They all agree. It is those who think that they can know Scripture better than those who wrote it ( cough Luther, Calvin, Smith cough) who introduce error. Obviously, I am not saying that you are the culprit here, Jerry. However, I can assume that you have been indoctrinated with the faith alone view, however, thus arriving at this current conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
If a person has true faith, they will want to live differently than they did before.
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God's Truth said:
You have got to be narrow minded and inexperienced. The reason why sin is so hard to stop doing is BECAUSE the sinner loves the way the sin makes them feel.
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And here we see the difference between the saved and the unsaved.

The saved have no desire for sin, and they know it has no dominion over them.

But the unsaved obsess over sin with it's power and it's draw. They see it everywhere (imagining it has power over everyone they meet). To them it's a force to be reckoned with....as if the Cross accomplished nothing. Thus they are unbelievers, and their view of sin proves it.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
DAN P said:
Hi and check again as it is not a NOUN but and ADJECTIVE !!

God can FORGIVE any SIN !!

As Col 2:13 says , having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TREPASSES !!

dan p
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We are both wrong it is a transitive verb the way it is used.

Definition of transitive
1
: characterized by having or containing a direct object a transitive verb
2
: being or relating to a relation with the property that if the relation holds between a first element and a second and between the second element and a third, it holds between the first and third elements equality is a transitive relation
3
: of, relating to, or characterized by transition.

noun
1.
an unprincipled person (often used humorously or affectionately).
synonyms: rogue, rascal, scoundrel, miscreant, good-for-nothing, villain, wretch, rake, degenerate, libertine, debauchee; More
2.
CHRISTIAN THEOLOGYarchaic
(especially in Calvinism) a sinner who is not of the elect and is predestined to damnation.
adjective
1.
unprincipled (often used as a humorous or affectionate reproach).
"a long-missed old reprobate drinking comrade"
synonyms: unprincipled, bad, roguish, wicked, rakish, shameless, immoral, degenerate, dissipated, debauched, depraved; archaicknavish
"reprobate behavior"
2.
CHRISTIAN THEOLOGYarchaic
(in Calvinism) predestined to damnation.
verbarchaic
1.
express or feel disapproval of.
"his neighbors reprobated his method of proceeding"

https://www.google.com/search?q=rep...69i65l2j0l3.8607j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
dodge

dodge

New member
jamie said:
This is scripture:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14 KJV)​
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Yes it is and that is where Satan and the rebellious angels and those that have rejected Christ Jesus will spend eternity in torment where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
dodge said:
Yes it is and that is where Satan and the rebellious angels and those that have rejected Christ Jesus will spend eternity in torment where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you, you have become a horror and shall be no more forever. (Ezekiel 28:19)​

Satan will cease to exist.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
jamie said:
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you, you have become a horror and shall be no more forever. (Ezekiel 28:19)​

Satan will cease to exist.
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Be no more a HORROR forever.

Ezek 28:19 (AKJV/PCE)​
(28:19) All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more.
​

This is NOT about some supposed "ceasing to exist". You made that up.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
jsanford108 said:
My friend,

I am not saying Paul was wrong. I am saying that the notion of faith alone is wrong. The doctrine of faith alone did not come from Paul, Peter, James, or even Christ.
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Paul:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ideas the gospel by itself is not the "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth." According to you a person must do other things besides believe to be saved.

Peter:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

A person is born again by the word of God, the gospel. If it takes more than that then why didn't Peter mention anything else?

James:

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1;18).​

That is the same truth which Peter preached about the new birth. But according to your ideas it is impossible to be born again by just the gospel.

The Lord Jesus:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

According to your ideas no one can inherit eternal life just by believing.
 
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glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Ever wonder why Jesus preached/taught the "Beatitudes"?

Compare with Gal 3:24,25 KJV and then speak of who the schoolmaster now must be.
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I don't know what it is you're asking, but clearly the Lord was speaking as the One who was to come as shown in the Prophets. ie.

Isaiah 61:1-3
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.​
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
jamie said:
How strange, Jesus said just the opposite by saying if you will enter into life keep the commandments.

He practiced what he preached, and look what it got him.

Where is Paul?
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He did it for us because He knew we couldn't. He took on the wages of our sin...death.

Paul tells us the law is for sinners, and Christ is the end of the law for those who believe.
 
Saxon Hammer

Saxon Hammer

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
If it takes faith plus obedience in order to be saved then what level of obedience is required?

In other words, what must a believer do in order to inherit eternal life according to his obedience? Is he just supposed to do the best that he can do to live a moral life? In my case I know that I have not always done my best to live that kind of a life so am I disqualified from ever attaining the eternal life which is in Christ Jesus?

Let us examine the following exchange between a lawyer and the Lord Jesus Christ where He answered the question of what level of obedience it takes to inherit eternal life:

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (Lk.10:25-28).​

If we fall short of that is our hope of salvation lost? If not,how many times do we get to fail but still have a chance to be saved?

Perhaps those who teach that both faith and obedience are required for salvation can answer that question.

Thanks!
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This looks like incomplete understanding


"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (Lk.10:25-28).​

The end response promises nothing other than continuing to live the certain lawyer's life for longer.

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself is ALL.

Because armed with that you neighbour as thyself will promote the actions that will heal your soul? Would it not? That soul is then suited for ETERNAL life - whatever that might mean to God.
 
T

Truster

New member
jamie said:
Salvation is by grace through faith, but for what purpose?

Why are people saved?

Are we created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them? Or should we just do as we please?
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Do you think that snow flakes actually form themselves, just drop and land wherever they please?
 
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