ECT Faith + Obedience = Salvation?

[jamie]

Do you follow this command of the Lord Jesus?:

"Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not" (Mt.23:1-3).​

No one can, Moses' seat no longer exists and the Law of Moses is long gone.

 

[DAN P]

No one can, Moses' seat no longer exists and the Law of Moses is long gone.

Hi and if the Law has been set aside , EXPLAIN 2 Cor 3:15 and 16 ?

dan p

 

[jamie]

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

What else ya got :chuckle:

Actually, I have no plans to be circumcised or even pierced.

 

[jamie]

Hi and if the Law has been set aside , EXPLAIN 2 Cor 3:15 and 16 ?

The vail has been done away in Christ. (The preceding verse)

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Actually, I have no plans to be circumcised or even pierced.

Here is how you said that people are saved:

Salvation is by grace through faith...

Since salvation is by grace through faith why did you say this on another thread?:

Only those who obey him receive his Spirit. Those who don't receive his Spirit are not his.

First you say that salvation is by grace through faith. And then you say that only those who obey Him receive his Spirit. Please answer Paul's question here:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal.3:2-3).​

 

[DAN P]

The vail has been done away in Christ. (The preceding verse)

Hi and it is obvious that 1 Cor 3:15 , says that Jews are still reading the Law of Moses !!

Vrese 16 , says that when God saves them , the VAIL is being TAKEN AWAY , and that is foreign to you ?

So , some Jews are still being SAVED TODAY it seems !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Level of Obedience required: I would answer, complete obedience. As would every Bible believer, hopefully. Yes we fall short due to our love of sin, but that is why we must repent, right? Is not repentance a work which we do to right ourselves with Christ/God? If we do not repent, we are classified as "unrepentant" sinners.

Hi jsanford,

Yes, we are supposed to repent of our sinful lifestyle. But that doesn't happen until we are saved by believing the gospel (Acts 16:30-31). Once a person believes he possess eternal life (Jn.5:24;1 Jn.5:11) and the Lord Jesus said that those to whom he gives eternal life shall never perish (Jn.10:28).

So I cannot see how anyone's obedience plays a part in anyone's salvation.

 

[God's Truth]

Hi jsanford,

Yes, we are supposed to repent of our sinful lifestyle. But that doesn't happen until we are saved by believing the gospel (Acts 16:30-31). Once a person believes he possess eternal life (Jn.5:24;1 Jn.5:11) and the Lord Jesus said that those to whom he gives eternal life shall never perish (Jn.10:28).

So I cannot see how anyone's obedience plays a part in anyone's salvation.

Just because a person believes does not mean they are saved. Faith alone is mentioned one time in the Bible and it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Just because a person believes does not mean they are saved. Faith alone is mentioned one time in the Bible and it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

If it takes more than faith to be saved then why did Paul and those with him answer the question in the way that they did?

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Since Paul only named ONE thing which a person must do in order be to be saved then if it takes more than that ONE thing then the answer Paul gave was in error.

Are you saying that Paul didn't know what it takes for a person to be saved?

 

[God's Truth]

If it takes more than faith to be saved then why did Paul and those with him answer the question in the way that they did?

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Since Paul only named ONE thing which a person must do in order be to be saved then if it takes more than that ONE thing then the answer Paul gave was in error.

Are you saying that Paul didn't know what it takes for a person to be saved?

If all the jailer had to do is believe and nothing else, why did he ask what he had to do and why then was he water baptized with the baptism of repentance?

In Acts 2:37 those to whom Peter preached responded by asking, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

Why did Peter say, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That is two different times now you see that people asked what should they do and they repented as was evident by their water baptism.

In addition, we see that after Paul believed he was baptized with the baptism of repentance (Acts 9:18); as were the Samaritans (Acts 8:12); the Ethiopian (Acts 8:35-39); Cornelius (Acts 10:47-48) and Crispus (Acts 18:8).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If all the jailer had to do is believe and nothing else, why did he ask what he had to do and why then was he water baptized with the baptism of repentance?

If the jailer had to do something other than believe to be saved then why did Paul tell him that if he would believe then he would be saved?

The answer which Paul gave was either right or it was wrong. There is no in between.

According to your ideas he answered wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

If the jailer had to do something other than believe to be saved then why did Paul tell him that if he would believe then he would be saved?

The answer which Paul gave was either right or it was wrong. There is no in between.

According to your ideas he answered wrong.

Why then wasn't the jailer saved on the spot?

Because he had to hear the message that saves and that message the jailer had to hear and believe is about believing Jesus died for the sins that you repent of doing.

 

[God's Truth]

Jerry, you need to address all of what I posted.

Tell me why all who asked what they must do, they then were water baptized?

 

[turbosixx]

If it takes faith plus obedience in order to be saved then what level of obedience is required?

In other words, what must a believer do in order to inherit eternal life according to his obedience? Is he just supposed to do the best that he can do to live a moral life? In my case I know that I have not always done my best to live that kind of a life so am I disqualified from ever attaining the eternal life which is in Christ Jesus?

Let us examine the following exchange between a lawyer and the Lord Jesus Christ where He answered the question of what level of obedience it takes to inherit eternal life:

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (Lk.10:25-28).​

If we fall short of that is our hope of salvation lost? If not,how many times do we get to fail but still have a chance to be saved?

Perhaps those who teach that both faith and obedience are required for salvation can answer that question.

Thanks!

Are you saying that as long as you believe, you can live however you want?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, you need to address all of what I posted.

Tell me why all who asked what they must do, they then were water baptized?

Why are you trying to change the subject? Just admit that you think that Paul's answer was wrong.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Are you saying that as long as you believe, you can live however you want?

Once a person truly believes he wants to live like the Lord wants him to live. However, Paul does say this:

"All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify" (1 Cor.10:23).​

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any" (1 Cor.6:12).​

 

[turbosixx]

Once a person truly believes he wants to live like the Lord wants him to live. However, Paul does say this:

"All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify" (1 Cor.10:23).​

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any" (1 Cor.6:12).​

So if someone truly believes, God want them to live for him but it's not required so they can live however they want. That seem to be the general consensus.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So if someone truly believes, God want them to live for him but it's not required so they can live however they want. That seem to be the general consensus.

As I said, if someone truly believes he will not live however he wants to live but instead in the way which the LORD wants him to live.

Why can you not understand that?

For what reason do you live the way which the LORD wants you to live?

 

[glorydaz]

So if someone truly believes, God want them to live for him but it's not required so they can live however they want. That seem to be the general consensus.

It's not "required", but our wanting to live for Him is a result of our being a new creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

The love of God is shed abroad on our hearts by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.​

These are not just words. There is a great love between the Creator and the created, and when that bond is restored, nothing will break it.

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

 

[glorydaz]

There are some people on TOL that if Jesus told them to jump they would jump.

There are others that would tell Jesus we don't do that anymore.

There are some people on TOL that claim Jesus is busy issuing orders.

There are others that understand He is guiding us into a deeper understanding of Him.