achduke
Active member
Do not forget that he also rose again.
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Do not forget that he also rose again.
achduke
Active member
Psalms 22:1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning?
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
Psalms 22:7 All those who see Me laugh Me to scorn; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
Psalms 22:8 "He trusted in the LORD, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!"
Psalms 22:9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust when I was on My mother's breasts.
Psalms 22:10 I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother's womb You have been My God.
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The assembly of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet;
Psalms 22:18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.
Psalms 22:29 All the prosperous of the earth Shall eat and worship; All those who go down to the dust Shall bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
Psalms 22:31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born, That He has done this.
oatmeal
Well-known member
CherubRam
New member
How honest is a person who accepts non-biblical terminology? Adding paganism to scriptures does not make it a biblical truth.
CherubRam
New member
You accept the Catholic modifications to scriptures and reject the original texts. Are Pagan Christians truly Christian, or just Pagans?
1 John 5
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the {a} Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
Footnotes:
a. 1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)
KJV 1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. 7And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.
1 John 5:7 implicitly states that all THREE are ONE.
This is the only verse in the Bible that explicitly states that all three persons are one.
Unfortunately, it was added to that verse.
No earlier version includes that last phrase about them being one.
The first 2 additions of Erasmus' master Greek text did not have this.
Stunica (a Catholic authority) demanded that he include the phrase.
Erasmus told Stunica that if he could provide one Greek manuscript with that phrase, he would include it.
But no Greek manuscripts up to that time had it.
Only Latin manuscripts had it. So Stunica had a Greek manuscript made up from the Latin and forced Erasmus to include it.
In 1514, before Erasmus had even begun to edit his text, but its publication was delayed until 1522, until permission of Pope Leo X had finally been obtained for it.
"The supreme Pontiff Leo X, Our Most Holy Father in Christ and Lord, desiring to favor this undertaking, sent from the apostolic library."
This claim seems to have been accepted by all at that time.
In view of its inclusion in the Clementine edition of the Latin Vulgate (1592), in 1897 the Holy Office in Rome, a high ecclesiastical congregation, made an authoritative pronouncement, approved and confirmed by Pope Leo XIII, that it is not safe to deny that this verse is an authentic part of St. John's Epistle."
IMJerusha
New member
This doesn't dismiss the Headship.
IMJerusha
New member
I do not doubt Who the Ruach is. I can't see how anyone can.
IMJerusha
New member
It is belief in Yeshua that makes one a Christian, not belief in the doctrine of the Trinity. How does a child understand what adults barely can but Yeshua stated, "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3 The faith of a child is simplistic/accepting and you want to tell people that they need to be more like the Pharisees! That's wrong and Yeshua clearly stated as much : "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are." It's not the law of the Trinity that saves, it's Yeshua.
Haha, "the Law of the Trinity", nice . . .
"Unless ye be circumcised and baptized into the Triune Godhead belief system, according to the custom of the church fathers, ye surely cannot be saved!"
It is all true! Just Ask Mr. Religion! :crackup:
keypurr
Well-known member
Great post pie lady
Ben Masada
New member
Yes, doctrines of trinities have been around from thousands of years ago. Christianity copied the Christian doctrine of the trinity from the Greek one of Zews the father, Poseidon the son and Hades the Holy Spirit.
oatmeal
Well-known member
oatmeal
Well-known member
I have to wonder what some replies would be if the thread was about, "Do you have to believe in the trinity to be a follower of Judaism?
Who would prove that to be true?
Ben Masada
New member
I hope you know what the Golden Rule is about. It is a rule that covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. I don't believe that Jesus insulted so terribly the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees, but as the NT says he did, he became a sinner of the whole Law (Mat. 23:13-33) and of course, in need of a savior himself.
Ben Masada
New member
Why not? Just say that you believe by faith. No one needs to give evidences for any thing he or she believes as long as they believe by faith. (II Cor. 5:7)
oatmeal
Well-known member
Terms like Trinity or "triune Godhead" are faith statements. They are theology that was developed by theologians long after Jesus died.
That is correct.
That is why those who believe scripture is God's word is not interested in theology that was developed later.
We are interested in what God has to say, not what theologians have to say.
God has told us all that we need to know about him (not them) in scripture.
God is one, all other theories and deviations are false
If God wanted to use the words,"trinity, triune, dual nature, God the Son, etc" to describe Himself, (not themselves) He certainly is smart enough to have done so.
Don't you think God is smart enough to have used those words if He they were appropriate?
Does God know every word in every language, past and present and future?
He did not use those words because they teach error, not truth.
oatmeal
Well-known member
IF they wish to keep to themselves and not benefit others by what they know, they will not share what they believe and why.
However, being someone who enjoys living and sharing truth like Moses, Joshua, Aaron, Abraham, Jeremiah, David, Hezekiah, et al, did, I would rather not share until I know that I can share the source for my beliefs.
Just like you did in sharing II Corinthians 5:7.
oatmeal
Well-known member
If the trinity is true,then God the Father was not the Father of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit is.
Did Jesus know that?
As many times he refers to the Father, did he refer to the Father as simply one of the three or as literally his Father?
John 17:1
Does the Father know that He is not the Father of the son?
Statements like "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" have little significance if Jesus is God, for who is going to fault God? How could God not be perfect? God is perfect, of course God is going to be pleased with himself, themselves.
Matthew 3:17
It was not for the benefit of the others for if Jesus is God, they would have known Jesus is perfect and had no need for praise from himself.
For that matter, why would Jesus have to have the spirit descend upon him, if Jesus is God and God is spirit, John 4:24, Jesus would already have the spirit because God is spirit.
for that matter, why did the spirit descend upon him? why not the Father? or why not both?
Who needs more spirit if they are spirit? John 4:24, was Jesus a little short on spirit? God is spirit, why wasn't Jesus spirit, why was he in need of spirit?
For that matter, since no man has seen God at any time, John 1:18, then we can clearly conclude that anything and anyone that any man has ever seen is not God.
Have you ever seen the sky? Then the sky is not God.
Have you ever seen a fish, then fish are not God.
Have you ever seen another human? then that human is not God.
Has anyone ever seen Jesus Christ? then Jesus Christ is not God.
Trinitarians, that is what is called remembering and thinking and believing.
God gave humans a brain in order to remember and think to the end of believing God's words.
It is our duty to use our brains to remember and think and to learn to believe God's words.
I believe that no man has ever seen God at any time, therefore I also believe that Jesus could not possibly be God because many people saw Jesus Christ
Truth is that simple.
CherubRam
New member
Do you have any scriptural support for the claim, that Yahshua needed a savior himself? You have a multitude of strange thoughts Ben. And stop ducking out when people ask you an important question Ben.