Do I condemn trinttarians to some form of damnation? Not at all

[Right Divider]

Not Mount of Olives.

Bethany is at the Mount of Olives.

Mark 11:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:1) And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,

"When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven.…"(Luke 24:50-51).

It clearly says that they returned FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET.

Acts 1:9-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (1:10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (1:11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (1:12) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Bethany is at Mount Olivet.

"With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God's grace was so powerfully at work in them all" (Acts 4:33).

When when Lord Jesus is used in the NT it is not יְהוָ֔ה (Yah·weh) Noun - proper - masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 3069: YHWH. It is “Lord Κύριε (Kyrie) Noun - Vocative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2962: Lord, master, sir; the Lord. From kuros; supreme in authority, i.e. controller; by implication, Master.

The "Lord" in Zechariah is Yahweh God the Father.

That is NOT what scripture says. Nowhere in scripture can you find LORD defined as "God the Father".

What the Bible DOES say is that the LORD will place His FEET on the Mount of Olives.

Confusing Hebrew and Greek does not help your theory.

Here is Mark quoting the prophets.

Mark 1:2-3 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:2) As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (1:3) The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Here is the passage that Mark is quoting.

Isa 40:3 (AKJV/PCE)
(40:3) ¶ The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Note that KURIOS is used to refer to YHWH.

 

[Bradley D]

Bethany is at the Mount of Olives.




It clearly says that they returned FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET.


Bethany is at Mount Olivet.


That is NOT what scripture says. Nowhere in scripture can you find LORD defined as "God the Father".

What the Bible DOES say is that the LORD will place His FEET on the Mount of Olives.

Confusing Hebrew and Greek does not help your theory.

Here is Mark quoting the prophets.



Here is the passage that Mark is quoting.



Note that KURIOS is used to refer to YHWH.

Bethany is near of Olives and you are right on verse 12.

"Note that KURIOS is used to refer to YHWH." One could see that interpretation.

So the main matter is that you are saying that the trinity Father, Son, and Holy Ghost/Spirit are three Gods?

I believe that God imparted His Spirit to the Son and can send His Spirit as the Holy Spirit to do His work and can given to Christians. Christ and the Holy Spirit are fully divine. The first commandment tells me there is one God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Not Mount of Olives.

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey. - Acts 1:9-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts1:9-12&version=NKJV

 

[Right Divider]

Bethany is near of Olives and you are right on verse 12.

As I showed in Mark 11:1, it says that Bethany is AT the Mount of Olives.

"Note that KURIOS is used to refer to YHWH." One could see that interpretation.

One certainly could.

So the main matter is that you are saying that the trinity Father, Son, and Holy Ghost/Spirit are three Gods?

Are you being dishonest? No, the doctrine of the trinity does NOT say that there are three God.

The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
There is ONE God.

That is what the Bible says.

I believe that God imparted His Spirit to the Son and can send His Spirit as the Holy Spirit to do His work and can given to Christians. Christ and the Holy Spirit are fully divine. The first commandment tells me there is one God.

You are all over the map Bradley. You seem to believe two contradictory things. Can you go ahead and make up your mind?

BTW, Jesus was the Son before creation.

John 17:5 (AKJV/PCE)
(17:5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Bradley D]

Is this what you believe?

"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus "threefold") holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons or hypostases—the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine persons". [h=3]Trinity - Wikipedia[/h]

 

[Right Divider]

Is this what you believe?

"The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus "threefold") holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons or hypostases—the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine persons". [h=3]Trinity - Wikipedia[/h]

I believe that there is one God and that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit... per the Bible.

 

[Bradley D]

I believe that there is one God and that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit... per the Bible.

When I pray I pray to Christ my High Priest heaven. Because I cannot go directly to the Father who I cannot stand before. I believe I have the Holy Spirit within me to help me and convict me. I can often feel the Spirit within give me a good feeling that I believe that the Father and Christ have given me. I continue to live this way and study the Word. I live by Faith. Hope, and Charity.

 

[7djengo7]

Let's keep in mind that scripture never, ever, not once refers to Jesus as "God the Son"

Oh, also, keep in mind that Scripture never, ever, not once refers to Jesus as "the Son of God the Father". Also, Scripture never refers to God the Father as "the Father of the Son of God", nor as "the Father of Jesus", nor as "the Father of Jesus Christ", nor as "Jesus' Father". Similarly, Scripture never refers to Abraham as "Dan's great grandfather", nor to Esau as "the uncle of Gad", nor the cross upon which Jesus was crucified as "the cross upon which Jesus was crucified".

So, what (if any) point was it you were trying to make by pointing out the obvious fact that we do not find the phrase, "God the Son", in the Bible?

​

However, it does refer to Jesus Christ as the "son of God" about 68 times, at last count.

Jesus is the son of God the Father, right? Yet, how many times does Scripture refer to Jesus Christ as "the son of God the Father"? That's right: 0.

​

What is the scriptural description of Jesus Christ?

It is not "God the Son" but rather "the son of God"

Keep that in mind before jumping on anyone's case.

Keep in mind that to ask whether or not a particular phrase (such as "God the Son") is found in Scripture is not the same thing as to ask what is the Scriptural description of Jesus.

Would you really like to deny that Scripture describes God the Father as the Father of Jesus? And yet, the phrase, "the Father of Jesus", is nowhere to be found in Scripture.


So far, no anti-Trinitarian has ever answered my question as to exactly whom they are referring by the phrase, 'God the Son', when they say, "Jesus is not God the Son". I'm trying to find out exactly whom, or what, the anti-Trinitarians are saying Jesus is not, when they say, "Jesus is not God the Son".

 

[oatmeal]

Oh, also, keep in mind that Scripture never, ever, not once refers to Jesus as "the Son of God the Father". Also, Scripture never refers to God the Father as "the Father of the Son of God", nor as "the Father of Jesus", nor as "the Father of Jesus Christ", nor as "Jesus' Father". Similarly, Scripture never refers to Abraham as "Dan's great grandfather", nor to Esau as "the uncle of Gad", nor the cross upon which Jesus was crucified as "the cross upon which Jesus was crucified".

So, what (if any) point was it you were trying to make by pointing out the obvious fact that we do not find the phrase, "God the Son", in the Bible?

Jesus is the son of God the Father, right? Yet, how many times does Scripture refer to Jesus Christ as "the son of God the Father"? That's right: 0.

Keep in mind that to ask whether or not a particular phrase (such as "God the Son") is found in Scripture is not the same thing as to ask what is the Scriptural description of Jesus.

Would you really like to deny that Scripture describes God the Father as the Father of Jesus? And yet, the phrase, "the Father of Jesus", is nowhere to be found in Scripture.


So far, no anti-Trinitarian has ever answered my question as to exactly whom they are referring by the phrase, 'God the Son', when they say, "Jesus is not God the Son". I'm trying to find out exactly whom, or what, the anti-Trinitarians are saying Jesus is not, when they say, "Jesus is not God the Son".

​

​

Whether or not scripture can be quoted to say those things, it is true nonetheless, unlike the unscriptural phrase, "God the Son" which contradicts the phrase, "son of God" which is found in scripture.

Jesus knew he was the son of the Father and said so.

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 17:1
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


Paul knew that Jesus is the of God the Father and declared it!

Galatians 1:1,3

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
³ Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,


God knew that He is the Father of the son.

Acts 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 5:5
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

1 John 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

2 John 1:3
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

You really should do some homework​

​

 

[Right Divider]

When I pray I pray to Christ my High Priest heaven. Because I cannot go directly to the Father who I cannot stand before. I believe I have the Holy Spirit within me to help me and convict me. I can often feel the Spirit within give me a good feeling that I believe that the Father and Christ have given me. I continue to live this way and study the Word. I live by Faith. Hope, and Charity.

Would you like to comment on the topic of the deity of Christ? Is Christ God or not?

Is the Holy Spirit God?

Do you believe scripture when it says, in Zechariah 14, that the LORD will put His FEET on the Mount of Olives when He comes in judgment?

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus is THE Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:47 KJV The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Not some secondary Lord.

 

[Bradley D]

Would you like to comment on the topic of the deity of Christ? Is Christ God or not?

Is the Holy Spirit God?

Do you believe scripture when it says, in Zechariah 14, that the LORD will put His FEET on the Mount of Olives when He comes in judgment?

The Bible tells me that Christ is the Son of God. Does that make Christ a God or of God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that was sent to the disciples by Christ in Acts. Also believe Chrisitians receive thee Holy Spirit. God can work within us through the Holy Spirit. As for Zech. 14. I have already wrote that relates to Yahweh whom I believe to be God the Father. I see Christ and the Holy Spirit as coming from the Father. How God's Spirit is given and works still to me is a mystery. Is there three Gods in one?

 

[Right Divider]

The Bible tells me that Christ is the Son of God. Does that make Christ a God or of God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that was sent to the disciples by Christ in Acts. Also believe Chrisitians receive thee Holy Spirit. God can work within us through the Holy Spirit. As for Zech. 14. I have already wrote that relates to Yahweh whom I believe to be God the Father. I see Christ and the Holy Spirit as coming from the Father. How God's Spirit is given and works still to me is a mystery. Is there three Gods in one?

So you think that God the Father ALSO has FEET?

No, there are NOT THREE GODS IN ONE.... that's not what the Bible says. The Bible says that there are three PERSONS that are the ONE God.

Again I will present this scripture.... Please actually read it and see what it means.

Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Christ was WITH His Father before creation.

Christ is THE Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:47 KJV The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

 

[Bradley D]

"No, there are NOT THREE GODS IN ONE.... that's not what the Bible says. The Bible says that there are three PERSONS that are the ONE God."

All right I understand what you are saying. Thank-you.

 

[Bradley D]

I am studying 1 John and came across this verse today. I thought it was a interesting verse for the argument for the trinity.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5:7).

But there is controversary:


Pulpit Commentary
Verse 7. - For those who bear witness are three, and thus constitute full legal testimony (Deuteronomy 17:6; Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1). It will be assumed here, without discussion, that the remainder of this verse and the first clause of verse 8 are spurious. Words which are not contained in a single Greek uncial manuscript, nor in a single Greek cursive earlier than the fourteenth century (the two which contain the passage being evidently translated from the Vulgate), nor are quoted by a single Greek Father during the whole of the Trinitarian controversy, nor are found in any authority until late in the fifth century, cannot be genuine.

 

[Right Divider]

I am studying 1 John and came across this verse today. I thought it was a interesting verse for the argument for the trinity.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5:7).

But there is controversary:


Pulpit Commentary
Verse 7. - For those who bear witness are three, and thus constitute full legal testimony (Deuteronomy 17:6; Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1). It will be assumed here, without discussion, that the remainder of this verse and the first clause of verse 8 are spurious. Words which are not contained in a single Greek uncial manuscript, nor in a single Greek cursive earlier than the fourteenth century (the two which contain the passage being evidently translated from the Vulgate), nor are quoted by a single Greek Father during the whole of the Trinitarian controversy, nor are found in any authority until late in the fifth century, cannot be genuine.

There are other less controversial passages that say similar things... like this one.

Mat 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Three persons... one name.... (name refers to authority there).

 

[Bradley D]

There are other less controversial passages that say similar things... like this one.


Three persons... one name.... (name refers to authority there).

But some see that in the name as the "equality of the three Divine Persons" (Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers).

 

[thborn]

Some people, that is, some trinitarians, have suggested that those of us who believe in one God rather than three gods in one, condemn trinitarians to damnation or some such thing.
Not so.

Scripture does not say that.

I John 4:15

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

I am certain that many, if not most, trinitarians would freely confess that " Jesus is the Son of God,"

LIkewise,

I John 5

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Again, I tend to believe that many, if not most trinitarians believe that "Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."

Now, many trinitarians have condemned me to hell or such such place for not calling Jesus "God the Son" . Which he is not, Jesus is the son of God which, I would tend to think most trinitarians believe as well.

So why don't you follow Jesus example, and quit condemning, insulting, degrading my beliefs seeing that in some respects we believe the same thing?

Oatmeal, I think overall you are trying to do a good thing with this post. I think anyone who accepts Jesus with all their heart and who reads Scripture with an open heart can't really go wrong. Of course this is not always easy to do, as we too often see. I encourage you to continue to look to the Word of God on this issue, as I am encouraged to do by your post.

 

[Right Divider]

But some see that in the name as the "equality of the three Divine Persons" (Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers).

It's pretty easy to understand figures of speech if you don't let preconceived notions get in the way.

"In the name of" means "by the authority of". It's just that simple.

One name (authority) shared by the Father, AND the Son AND the Holy Spirit.

 

[oatmeal]

Jesus is THE Lord from heaven.


Not some secondary Lord.

Actually, again, you fail to take into account all the scriptures on a topic.

I was going to say I was surprised you would have forgotten Acts 2:34

³⁴ For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

The Lord is telling the subordinate lord, my lord, what to do.

The Lord is greater than David's my lord.

God is The Lord, Jesus his son, is David's my lord.

Likewise, in verse 36, we read that God made Jesus both lord and Christ.

It does not say that Jesus was always lord and anointed. God did that for him. Jesus did not do that for himself

³⁶ Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

If you do not know how to look of verses on the same subject, please let me know, I can get you started on this wonderful journey