Discussion: Jerry Shugart vs Door

[Door]

Sure.

Every Christian is given the right and ability to discern truth from falsehood, and responsibility to evalutate truth from error.

But we are forbidden to judge the eternal fate of another.


"To Me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste." Deut. 32:35

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19

Nang

I'm not going to touch him. We are to judge wolves as wolves. False prophets, false teachers, etc. I want him to mutilate himself Galatians 5. I want to turn him over to Satan for the destruction of His flesh. I want Judaizers like him to be accursed Galatians 1.

Godless legalists are worse than child molesters.

 

[elected4ever]

Jerry, and others like him, are preaching such a damnable false gospel, that they will lead many to hell. I don't want to see that happen. I would rather Jerry go there on his own, then drag many others with him.

It is the nature of a man to dig in there heals when they are attack in such a manner. I use to believe just like Jerry and it took an act of love not an attack by the Holy Spirit to change my mind and I believe it will take that same act of love by the Holy Spirit to change Jerry's mind. Changing Jerry's mind is not your job. Your job is to give a reason for the faith that lies within you. You are good at that. Do not loose patients.

There are many saved that have been misled by the carnal church but just because we have been misled does not make us a candidate for hell. Only the deranged do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

 

[Door]

It is the nature of a man to dig in there heals when they are attack in such a manner. I use to believe just like Jerry and it took an act of love not an attack by the Holy Spirit to change my mind and I believe it will take that same act of love by the Holy Spirit to change Jerry's mind. Changing Jerry's mind is not your job. Your job is to give a reason for the faith that lies within you. You are good at that. Do not loose patients.

There are many saved that have been misled by the carnal church but just because we have been misled does not make us a candidate for hell. Only the deranged do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

Good points. :up:

 

[JCWR]

Let's see what Matthew Henry said about 1 John 1:9:

Huh? My post was specific to 1:6. You claimed that wild imaginations could only account for my view that John was using examples of the boasts of the false teachers to show their absurdity. I showed you several examples where the very same views are held by others smarter than you or I. Your only rejoinder is to move on and start up on another verse? No wonder the one on one is basically Door talking to himself. The lights are on, but apparently no one is home.

 

[godrulz]

there has to be more than one verse that mentions being filled with the Spirit if we are going to make a doctrine out of it for christians to live by. the current doctrine of being filled with the Spirit that is taught by many pastors has no scriptural support. it is entirely a theory that is concocted to explain why christians sometimes act carnally and sometimes holy. all ephesians says is to be filled with the Spirit and not be drunk with wine. there is nothing in that verse to support the silly notion that is being taught today. if it were an important doctrine, there would be more than one verse that mentions it.

There are also verses in Acts. Check your concordance. Are you saying a verse is false if it is the only verse on the topic?!

 

[godrulz]

I think there are better ways to register disagreement.

Understatement of the year...:duh:

 

[godrulz]

Jerry, and others like him, are preaching such a damnable false gospel, that they will lead many to hell. I don't want to see that happen. I would rather Jerry go there on his own, then drag many others with him.

One's exegesis of I John is generally not a salvific issue. Do you wear black robes?

There are equally capable, godly, Christ-loving/fearing believers on both sides of the issue with Rom. 7, I Jn. 1:9, Heb. 6:4-6, etc.

Un bee lee va bull.:sigh:

 

[godrulz]

I can judge what someone says. Paul did it, and I can do it. In fact, Paul tells us to do it.

It is a big assumption and cosmic leap that you are right about everything. If you are wrong in your assumptions, then your conclusions are also flawed. Pride goes before a fall.

 

[godrulz]

Good points. :up:

What spirit caused him to deny the salvific Deity of Christ? You agree with an unbeliever and curse a fellow believer?!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

sin determines rewards? NO
spiritual maturity determines rewards? NO
works built on the foundation of Christ? YES
1 Corinthians 3:12-14

:thumb:

The works which are tried are related to rightly dividing the word
of truth, that we may be "approved as workmen". It's what we do with the dispensation
of the gospel, 1 Cor 9 KJV, that determines whether our work will
burn up or withstand the fire.

Rewards are not determined by the morality of our lifestyle.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

another doctrine with scarce new testament support is the idea of LOSS OF FELLOWSHIP. somebody please provide me with the scriptures that teach loss of fellowship.

I am interested in this also. I would like to know how someone who's life
is hid with Christ in God can not be in fellowship with God...

 

[tetelestai]

:thumb:

The works which are tried are related to rightly dividing the word
of truth, that we may be "approved as workmen". It's what we do with the dispensation
of the gospel, 1 Cor 9 KJV, that determines whether our work will
burn up or withstand the fire.

Rewards are not determined by the morality of our lifestyle.

Correct!

However, a believer is unable to rightly divide the word
of truth if such believer is not filled with the Holy Spirit, walking in the light, in fellowship with the Lord.

Why else do you think so many believers have “wrongly” divided the word of truth? They were not filled with the Holy Spirit.

Work that will “burn up” is work done while being under the influence of the old sin nature.

Spiritual maturity can only be gained by rightly dividing the word of truth.

If a believer has unconfessed sin in his or her life, walking in the dark, grieves the Holy Spirit, then the believer will never be able to rightly divide the word of truth, because the believer is not filled with the Holy Spirit.

Without being able to rightly divide the word of truth, the believer does not spiritually grow.

Make sense?

 

[tetelestai]

I am interested in this also. I would like to know how someone who's life
is hid with Christ in God can not be in fellowship with God...

By grieving or quenching (squelching) the Holy Spirit. You can read more here

Who glorifies Jesus Christ?

Not you or me, or any other believer. The answer is the Holy Spirit.

When the Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus in us, He reveals Him to us in this His glory. He takes of the things of Christ and declares them to us.

However, one has to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Door]

Not really.

I want to see some biblical evidence that sin effects "rewards".

I want proof of what those rewards are.

I want spiritual maturity to be defined.

I don't believe they have any evidence for their assertions.

More questions ignored, because they know that doing so will destroy their false gospel.

 

[voltaire]

all believers are 100% filled with the Spirit 100% of the time. you either have all of the Spirit or zilch. all believers walk in the light period since they cannot sin. 1 John 3:9. All believers are in fellowship with Christ since they are part of his body. there is no filling with the Spirit. that concept is confused with walking according to the Spirit which has to do with believing who God says you are and just believing God period.

 

[Door]

all believers are 100% filled with the Spirit 100% of the time. you either have all of the Spirit or zilch. all believers walk in the light period since they cannot sin. 1 John 3:9. All believers are in fellowship with Christ since they are part of his body. there is no filling with the Spirit. that concept is confused with walking according to the Spirit which has to do with believing who God says you are and just believing God period.

100% correct!! :thumb:


btw... I have moved the "Rewards" discussion Here

 

[Door]

What spirit caused him to deny the salvific Deity of Christ? You agree with an unbeliever and curse a fellow believer?!

William, you think e4e was wrong in what he said because he is an unbeliever? Unbelievers can NEVER be right about anything? Then why did YOU agree with e4e just minutes before you posted this?

More proof of your double mindedness.

I agree with you sometimes, and I know you are not a believer. Would you prefer if I never mentioned it when I agree?

btw... I believe that anyone who teaches that a believer can lose fellowship with God, or that they can walk in darkness, or that the Holy Spirit will leak out of them, is not a believer, or knows God in any way. Those people are not in the light, not in fellowship, and not in Christ. They are lost.

 

[voltaire]

yes you can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 4:30 1 Thessalonians 5:19.
to make the Holy Spirit sorrowful does not make him any less powerful to do his work in you.
the verse in thessalonians seems to suggest that quenching is actively working to stop the work of the Spirit much in the same way as you would throw water on a fire to quench it. but this quenching seems to be aimed at stopping the work of the Spirit in the church or community, not within yourself.

 

[elected4ever]

What spirit caused him to deny the salvific Deity of Christ? You agree with an unbeliever and curse a fellow believer?!

I understand that you do not understand my position. I understand yours because it is steeped in tradition and not fact. I was raised and taught tradition also. If you can explain how the word of God, which is the express representation of God, carries with it less than the same divinity as the God who spoke it I will concede the point. If you cannot do that then I thank you to keep your false accusations to yourself.

 

[Lighthouse]

Wait a minute. e4e's not an unbeliever.:liberals: